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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:50 am 
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Feldherrnhalle Korps or "Waffen-SA"

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When most people interested in the units of the Third Reich, they tend to think of "Feldherrnhalle"
as a standard Wehrmacht unit which has a fancy cufftitle. On closer inspection this is not so.

The Feldherrnhalle started as a Regiment ( refered to as an "SA-Standarte" within the unit)
and finished the war as a Korps. The unit had been wiped out at Stalingrad and reformed,
it had a very good fighting record, but the unit is often overlooked when studying elite units.

It was one of the few Wehrmacht units that recruited volunteers only, and much like the GD,
Feldherrnhalle recruits signed on for a number of years. The Feldherrnhalle was the only Wehrmacht
unit that recruited direct from SA-Standarten, all members of the unit were expected to have served
some time within the SA prior to military service.

It was the only Wehrmacht unit that issued brown SA uniforms to its military band and flag bearers.
Perhaps it was intended to create an SA version of the Waffen-SS? Feldherrnhalle remained under
tight Wehrmacht control and therefore never advanced beyond Korps level in size.


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They are mentioned by the name "Waffen-SA" in the book (ISBN 3-920722-46-9) "Soldaten der Standarte Feldherrnhalle" by Erich Jainek. German language only.

Mit Kameradengruß,

Willi

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 2:11 pm 
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Willi please tell us more

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:07 pm 
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Franz repper wrote:
Willi please tell us more


I have added a chart showing how the Feldherrnhalle came into being. You can follow it on the chart, but I will add a few notes of my own to make it clearer. Nine SA-Sturmbannen formed the Feldherrnhalle ( I will shorten this to FHH). From this Standarte a company was formed to join the 22nd Air Landing Division, a unit that had both army and Luftwaffe connections. The reason for this being that Hermann Göring had roles in both the Luftwaffe and SA pre-war.

The FHH Company grew to be a Battalion and was transfered to the 93rd Infantry Division. By 1942 the Battalion was at Regimental strengh, and whilst still with the 93rd Inf.Div. became the 271st FHH Regt. This unit had nothing to do with the 60th Inf.Div. at this time, the only "connection" that they had was the fact that they were both made up of SA Brown Shirts.

At the start of the war the 60th Infantry Division was formed from the SA-Standarte "Brigade Eberhardt" in Danzig. This unit was destroyed in Stalingrad, the only troops remaining were the depot and recruits in Germany, soldiers who had been wounded and flown out of Stalingrad or those on training courses and thus not in the battle.All of these remnants were sent to France in the spring of 1943. As these were not enough soldiers to reform the 60th Inf.Div. alone, the 271 Regiment from the 93rd Inf.Div. was added, thus placing all the SA units within one division. The 60th Inf.Div. became the "Pz.Gren.Div. FHH", which contained a Pz.Gren. Regt FHH, a Pz.Füs.Regt. FHH, a Pz.Art.Regt FHH and a Pz Battalion FHH.

By mid 1944 there were three additional Panzer Brigades which carried the title FHH. The 106th which seems to have remained independant, the 109th which joined with other FHH units to form the Panzer Division FHH. The 110th, with other FHH units, formed the 13th Pz.Div.FHH. These two divisions in turn formed the Panzer Korps FHH.

In March 1945, the Pz.Div.FHH became the Pz.Div. "FHH 1", and the 13th Pz Div. FHH became the Pz.Div."FHH 2".
In April 1945, some FHH units (or remnants as they then were) joined Panzer Division "Clausewitz".


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SA-Gruppenführer Erwin Kübler replaced Erich Reimann as commander of SA-Standarte Feldherrnhalle.
Kübler was with the FHH until the end of the war, but went on perform duties within the FHH Panzer Korps HQ.
Command of the SA-Standarte went to Knights Cross holder and SA-Brigadeführer Ewald Bartel in November 1944.


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271st Infantry Regiment FHH in Epinal. "Heil Grenadiere" shouts the General to his men.
The men return with "Heil, Herr General!" like a loud thunderclap!

Mit Kameradengruß

Willi

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:48 am 
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Willi these being SA members or Ex SA members did they have any problems from the Waffen SS and even Himmler ?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:21 pm 
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Great thread guys, they are very much overlooked especially in the English speaking world. I know there is mention and a few nice pictures of the unit fighting in Hungary. Including a picture of Wilhelm Schöning commander of Pz.Füs.Regt ‘FHH’ in the book Panzerschlacht: Armored Operations on the Hungarian plains September-November 1944.

Regards
Ernst


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 9:28 am 
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Franz repper wrote:
Willi these being SA members or Ex SA members did they have any problems from the Waffen SS and even Himmler ?


Hi Franz,

Your question would seem to refer to "fallout" from the 30th June 1934 Röhm Putsch?

We must remember that the public at that time would not have the information that
we freely have today. They were told that Röhm planned a takeover, but that the
rank and file of the SA were innocent of any involvement, and that Röhm was manipulating
the SA for his own ends.

The SA and the SS continued to work together after 30th June 1934 and that as far as is
known, Heinrich Himmler and the SA-Chief Viktor Lütze had a good working relationship.
Himmler even named one of the SS divisions "Horst Wessel" which was linked to the SA.

Mit Kameradengruß,

Willi

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 9:38 am 
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Ernst wrote:
Great thread guys, they are very much overlooked especially in the English speaking world. I know there is mention and a few nice pictures of the unit fighting in Hungary. Including a picture of Wilhelm Schöning commander of Pz.Füs.Regt ‘FHH’ in the book Panzerschlacht: Armored Operations on the Hungarian plains September-November 1944.

Regards
Ernst


Hallo Ernst,

Here is a photo of Wilhelm Schöning, the commander of Panzer Division FHH2

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The next picture is one of the rare ones to come from Stalingrad, it shows Knights Cross holder
Erich Petermann, who fell defending Hill 135,1 in Stalingrad on 18th September 1942.

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Mit Kameradengruß,

Willi

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 2:45 pm 
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Thanks willi may I ask one more ? how were the veterans treated after the war , I ask this as the SA was a party organization so they be treated like the Waffen SS troops or as they were Wehrmacht troops it was over looked that they were once SA

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:21 pm 
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Franz repper wrote:
Thanks willi may I ask one more ? how were the veterans treated after the war , I ask this as the SA was a party organization so they be treated like the Waffen SS troops or as they were Wehrmacht troops it was over looked that they were once SA


True both were forbidden organisations after the war, but as far as I know, the SA were not charged with any crimes during
the WW2 period?
Their crimes had been the political brawling between 1925 to 1933 and the "Wild" KZ camps in 1933-34.
Once Röhm had been murdered, the SA became a mere shadow of its former self, you could say that after June 1934 it reverted
into a "harmless sports association", when one considers that it was once over a million strong and challenged the Reichswehr
in its hayday.


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Sign outside the hall from the veterans of the FHH in Austria.


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"Ich trage meinen Bruder - er ist nicht schwer."

TRANSLATION: "I carry my brother - he is not heavy."

Mit Kameradengruß,

Willi

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:16 am 
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Thanks willi so I take it that why would get the war pension as they served in the Wehrmacht ? Unlike the SS Veterans who could not

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:40 am 
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Franz repper wrote:
Thanks willi so I take it that why would get the war pension as they served in the Wehrmacht ? Unlike the SS Veterans who could not


I can not remember off hand which year the Waffen-SS were granted a war pension, it was some time in the 60s.
I have started a new thread covering this interesting topic.......

please go to........ viewtopic.php?f=5&t=12119&p=112768#p112768

That way we can keep this thread "Feldherrnhalle".

Mit Kameradengruß

Willi

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Last edited by Bill Medland on Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:39 pm 
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Willi Klapptisch wrote:
Franz repper wrote:
Thanks willi so I take it that why would get the war pension as they served in the Wehrmacht ? Unlike the SS Veterans who could not


I can not remember off hand which year the Waffen-SS were granted a war pension, it was some time in the 60s.
I have started a new thread covering this interesting topic.......

please go to........ viewtopic.php?f=5&t=12119&p=112768#p112768

That way we can keep this thread "Feldherrnhalle".

Mit Kameradengruß

Willi

Sorry Willi I was no meaning to take it off topic I just wanted to know if they had the same problems as ex SS members after the war or the fact that they were in the Wehrmacht saved them from this
Do you have any contact with members of this unit ?

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 2:10 pm 
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Franz repper wrote:
Sorry Willi I was no meaning to take it off topic I just wanted to know if they had the same problems as ex SS members after the war or the fact that they were in the Wehrmacht saved them from this
Do you have any contact with members of this unit ?


You were not really taking it off topic, it is just that I wish to add a lot more FHH info over the next few days :wink:

All the veterans I knew have passed on, all the recent information is in books, some of which have not been
translated into English, and are not likely to be translated due to the fact that some are only published in small
numbers 500 to a 1000, for existing veterans and friends. This is the main reason I wish to start a few threads
on this forum, to pass on the information before it is lost to us.

If just one person writes "wow, I didnt know that, thanks", then it has been worth while :D

Mit Kameradengruß,

Willi

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 12:32 am 
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Super post Willi and most informative . Posts like this are exactly what we need in this section , please feeel free to post again and thanks for doing so.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:05 am 
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I agree with Schnellmeyer,found this post very interesting and am looking forward to reading more :D

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