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 Post subject: what was the SD?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 2:14 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:13 am
Posts: 36
Location: Mesa, Arizona
Hi hope someone can help me.
Who and what was the SD?
Likewise dose anyone know anything about the SD Reconnaissance Group that serverd at Normandy in 44
Were the uniforms different from the army or the SS? what color was the piping?
Thamks for the help.
Adan


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 Post subject: Re: what was the SD?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 7:59 am 
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Location: Wehrkreis VI
The SD started as a internal Intelligence service of the SS in 1931. It became a very large instituion, the RSHA. It was no part of the Waffen-SS. The SD is no part of the fighting forces.

It is a very long way to explain. Better read.
Sicherheitsdienst
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicherheitsdienst
Reichsschicherheitshauptamt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS-Reichss ... tshauptamt
Einsatzgruppen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einsatzgruppen

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 Post subject: Re: what was the SD?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:07 am 
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Feldherrnhalle?

pretty sure they were active.

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 Post subject: Re: what was the SD?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:19 am 
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Location: Wehrkreis VI
http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=1340
http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gli ... nhalle.htm

Feldherrnhalle is a Army unit at the eastern front.
This division received it's honorary title because of the high number of volunteers from the SturmAbteilung (SA).

SA and SD are two different organisations.

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 Post subject: Re: what was the SD?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:38 am 
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You are right.

mixt them up :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: what was the SD?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:13 am 
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Can the original poster please share his primary source for the question of an SD Aufklaerungs unit in Normandy 44?

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 Post subject: Re: what was the SD?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:37 am 
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Location: Grossbritannien
SpainshSS wrote:
Hi hope someone can help me.
Who and what was the SD?
Likewise dose anyone know anything about the SD Reconnaissance Group that serverd at Normandy in 44
Were the uniforms different from the army or the SS? what color was the piping?
Thamks for the help.
Adan


The piping for SD Units was usually green and as stated by Christian the SD were security forces,
there were armed units but acted as only liquidation squads such as what happened in the
aftermath of 1940 France and the Ardeatine massacre in Rome under the authority of Kappler
and various other zones, but the SD original role was supposed to be intelligence (not Abwehr)
and internal Policing of the Army and SS forces.

There were different departments including the Gestapo, Kripo and the RSHA branch which
eventually was headed by Heydrich, this is written from memory so would have to consult the
ref books lol.

Uniforms were mainly the same for other ranks but Officers wore a grey open necked type
tunic and apart from rank patches the unit patch unlike the normal SS Rune type patch was
blank, (see pic of Heydrich below for example).

Attachment:
Heydrich.jpg
Heydrich.jpg [ 37.97 KiB | Viewed 6467 times ]


Good luck with your research, Pipes :wink:

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Last edited by Peiper on Fri Nov 12, 2010 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: what was the SD?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:26 pm 
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The piping for SD is giftgrun or put another way police green and in some books described as 'toxic' green.In 1940 the SD were permitted to wear the same uniform as the waffen SS,even identicle shoulder boards a fact that was disturbing to many in the waffen SS which led to changes to SD insignia.In 1942 the SD used police style shoulder boards,the difference being that where the centre braid on o/r and nco straps were brown,the SD was black.Before the war they used allgemeine SS straps.
Any body who is interested in SS/Waffen SS uniforms I recommend the following books:-
Schiffer publications:
Uniforms of the Waffen SS.volumes 1,2 and 3.by Michael D.Beaver
Camouflage uniforms of the waffen SS.by Michael D.Beaver.
Older publications like uniforms of the SS by A.Mollo are still good for reference.
I cannot stress enough about accuiring the best books availible on your chosen subject,as a collector I have said the same thing(I've had people reply,"oh I can get a badge/medal for that price" and I say"yes and you could get a wrong one!).
John.

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Last edited by Brigardefuhrer on Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: what was the SD?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:37 pm 
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If I might correct your small type John, the colour of SD Waffenfarbe is Giftgrun - as you rightly state Toxic Green. The only grey waffenfarbe I am aware off is Hellgrau (light Grey) used for Propagandakompanie although LW Penal Troops used Grey Waffenfarbe........
Herr Peiper's memory seems a trifle muddled at present - I hope this is of assistance to him. Again your tip on having a good library holds much water.

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 Post subject: Re: what was the SD?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 1:00 pm 
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:lol: Thanks Paul,I have corrected it.I was looking at the waffenfarbe chart in an original 1944 Waffen SS diary in my collection and the print is very small and my old eyes ect.
John.

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"I require able bodied men,with good horse and gun.
I wish none but those who desire to be actively engaged".
"Come on boys,if you want a heap of fun and to kill some yankees".
Nathan Bedford Forest.


Last edited by Brigardefuhrer on Fri Nov 12, 2010 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: what was the SD?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 1:39 pm 
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:oops: Excuse gents i meant to put green but for some reason but grey??
I think i must have been thinking about the colour of SD Uniforms lol, as
i said all that was written from memory as my ref books are not with me
at present. (ps: i have corrected it now ok)

Cheers Peiper :D

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"Schreite mit stolzer Geringschatzung durch den Pfuhl menschlicher Unzulassigkeit"
"Stride with proud disdain through the swamp of human inadmissibility" Jochen Peiper 1915-1976
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SS-Gren/Heinrich Stohler, Second Battle Group


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 Post subject: Re: what was the SD?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 1:48 pm 
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Peiper wrote:
:oops: Excuse gents i meant to put green but for some reason but grey??
I think i must have been thinking about the colour of SD Uniforms lol, as
i said all that was written from memory as my ref books are not with me
at present. (ps: i have corrected it now ok)

Cheers Peiper :D

You need to stop trying to repair that spaceship and get some mud on yer boots........ :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: what was the SD?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 1:55 pm 
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Hoffman Grink wrote:
You need to stop trying to repair that spaceship and get some mud on yer boots........ :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Erm.............ok Hoff, lol :?:

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"Schreite mit stolzer Geringschatzung durch den Pfuhl menschlicher Unzulassigkeit"
"Stride with proud disdain through the swamp of human inadmissibility" Jochen Peiper 1915-1976
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 Post subject: Re: what was the SD?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:46 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:13 am
Posts: 36
Location: Mesa, Arizona
Thanks for your help,

I got the info about the SD at Normandy in 1944 from the book called True Belivers: Spanish Volunteers in the Heer and Waffen-SS, 1944- 1945 By Jean- Pierre Sourd
In this book it list a few short Bio's. One of the Bio's is from Ruino Luis Garcia Valdajos. He states that he was a member of the SD Frontaufklarungstruppe that saw action in the battle of Normandy. Ill write a small part of what the book states of his Bio word for word.

" In the Spring of 1944. He was sent to Sonderstab "F" in March 1944 as a Lieutenant. In June 1944 he became Waffen-Odersturmfuhrer der SS in the SD. Following an SD course in Paris, which he took alongside Miguel Ezquerra, he became an administrative officer for Spanish volunteers at the "quartier de la Reine" barracks. He took part in the battle for Normandy in an SD Frontaufklarungstruppe (Frontline SD Reconnaissance Troop). He also saw action against the marquis in central France until September 1944 when he was sent to work at the Iberian- American Institute of retired General Faupel."

It gose on but that were I got the info from . I think its cool that we was with Miguel Ezquerra who late was the commander of the Einsatzgruppe Ezquerra SS.

Oh a little off topic. In the same book it talks about some Spaniards faght to the Bitter end with Otto Skorzeny. In the SS Jagdeinsatz Sudfrankreich (French & spanish volunteers) any know anything about this. Well thanks again for the help.

Adam


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 Post subject: Re: what was the SD?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:19 pm 
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Location: AFRA - UK Nord
Thanks for the PM Adam,

Valdajos is quite well documented - but it's the first time I've heard of an SD Aufklaerungstruppe.....

Quote:
One Spaniard who established a clear and indisputable record within the SS was Rufino Luis Garcia-Valdajos. Born in 1918, he enlisted in the Blue Division in late 1942, remaining as a volunteer until March 1944, when he remained in Germany rather than be repatriated to Spain. He gained a position with the SD in Paris and worked against the French Resistance until the Nazi retreat forced him to return to Germany in late 1944. There he joined Belgian collaborator Leon Degrelle's SS-Freiwilligen-Grenadierdivision-Wallonie (SS Wallonian Volunteer Grenadier Division) in November 1944. In February 1945, Garcia-Valdajos, now an SS first lieutenant, applied to the SS Rasse- und Siedlungshauptamt (RuSHA, Central Office for Race and Resettlement) for permission to marry a German woman living in Berlin, Ursula Jutta-Maria Turcke. After determining that neither Garcia-Valdajos nor his bride had any Jewish ancestry, this permission was granted.


I can't find any reference to an SD Aufklaerungstruppe or indeed and Aufklaerungsgruppe........ I tend to think this is some embroidery of fact - He is recorded as serving with the SD in Paris - there wouldn't be much call for reconnaissance there.. I'll keep looking however.

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