Volkssturm

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Post by Hoffman Grink »

The Freikorps angle would have been my next one Maus and very astute of you to spot it.
PotRotFu... We always do on here - It's a different class of forum didn't you know? 8)
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Post by LAH650 »

Sorry my post read badly so I pulled it
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Post by BDMhistorian »

The Freikorps Sauerland wasn't a leftover Weimar Era Freikorps.

In September 1944, the Gauleiter of Westphalia gave order to set up a home guard unit, the Freikorps Sauerland. (All members had to be volunteers.) In October, the unit became part of the overall Volkssturm when the Volkssturm was officially established.

Speaking of the Volkssturm, this is kind of a neat picture of a VS unit.

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Post by BDMhistorian »

Here's another one of the Volkssturm in the Ruhr area.
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And here's one of Volkssturm men in training in Eastern Prussia.
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Sorry for the copyright notice on both, they're from a German online archive. What I'm saying is, not all Volkssturm units were the same. Some were very uniform. Others were thrown together in the last weeks of the war.

Either way, I don't think we should discount the Volkssturm as being just "old men and HJ boys" and "not worth representing at events".
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Post by Cookie »

This is turning into a hot topic!

I've got a copy of Hans Kissel's 'Hitler's Last Levy; The Volkssturm 1944-45' and there's a lot of really good pictures of VS in it and a lot of text supporting the idea that the VS were more than just a rag-tag bunch of cripples and old men. (Hans Kissel was a Wermacht General Major posted to the planning staff of the Volkssturm).

As BDMhistorian states the freikorps Saurland had nothing to do with the inter-war freikorps militia groups. These ceased to exist as armed bodies when Hitler came to power in 1933. The FKS and other units such as the Tiroler Standschutzen were officially organised and equipped Volkssturm militias with either their own specific uniforms, or in the case of the Tiroler Standschutzen, given army kit - but the FKS were definitely within the VS order of battle. I also have a selection of photos of an eastern front SA-Volkssturm Battalion who are wearing SA tan uniforms with Nazi swastika armbands, SS and Heer zeltbahns and infantry helmets. They are carrying Panzerschrecks, MP44's and Panzerfausts. They look more like Panzergrenadiers than most 'proper' units.

I also have 50+ pages of Volkssturm related reports, accounts and edicts issued by the Party and the armed forces.

Here is an interesting piece:

"Directive of 1 December 1944
concerning the status of members of the Volkssturm
(RGB1. 1944 T.IS. 343/344)
(H. V. B1. 1945, T.B.S.5 Nr 7)

The Wehrmacht and the Volkssturm are the Volk in arms. Service in the Volkssturm is a service of honour to the German Volk in exactly the same way as service in the Wehrmacht. The Volkssturmsoldat has obligations and rights just as the soldier in the wehrmacht has...

The Leader of the Party Chancellery
M.Bormann"


There are many more official statements about equipping the volkssturm and about the combatant status of the VSsoldaten.

Also of interest:

Battailons-Fuhrer und SA Hauptsturmfuhrer der SA Ernst Tiburzy. Winner of the knights cross for the singlehanded destruction of 5 Soviet tanks.
Feb 1945. Konigsberg.
Battailons-Fuhrer und Polizei Sprengmeister Wilhelm Sitt. Winner of the Knights cross 7 Feb 1945. Also holder of EK2 1914-18 with 39-45 bar, EK1 1939-45, golden party badge, wound badge and war merit cross 1st class with swords.
Jakob Hoffen. KompanieFuhrer der Volkssturm. Winner of the knights cross for his participation of the attack by Willhelm Sitt against soviet forces. Pomerania. 7th Feb.
Volkssturmmanner und Hitlerjunge Nowak, 16 years old and despite serious wounds was awarded the Knights cross for the single handed destruction of 9 soviet tanks with panzerfaust.

Paul - these men (and boys) were awarded the knights cross for exceptional bravery in the face of overwhelming odds. They did this whilst leading, or being part of, VS battalions. Uniformed and properly equipped by the werhmacht as ordered by the government.

There are a lot of pictures in the book and the vast majority show men in army uniforms armed with K98's and Panzerfaust.

As for reenacting US garrison troops in Japan - yeah yeah! 11th Airborne all the way baby! Pressed chino's, highly polished jumpboots with white laces...

Maybe you should consider reenacting these stomach and ear battalions you mentioned. I read somwhere that they were all that was defending the Westwall around Aachen until your choice, the 116th 'windhund' div. turned up. You could do a nice little setup of panzergrenadiers sitting around playing cards with a few crusty old farts in their WWI greatcoats and postmens uniforms!

Personally speaking I think when done properly a Volkssturm impression can look every bit as authentic and impressive as that of any army unit. As Paul states I have already done VS and was very pleased with my impression.

I'll get onto Andy W to post some pics of VS through this coppermine thingy.

Cheers,
Mark A - AFRA
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Post by Maus Commander »

BDMhistorian wrote:The Freikorps Sauerland wasn't a leftover Weimar Era Freikorps.

In September 1944, the Gauleiter of Westphalia gave order to set up a home guard unit, the Freikorps Sauerland. (All members had to be volunteers.) In October, the unit became part of the overall Volkssturm when the Volkssturm was officially established.

Speaking of the Volkssturm, this is kind of a neat picture of a VS unit.
Well, ok, there I am wrong then. However its the name I can also get at. Its an unorthadox VS unit, its a "Freikorps" as in keeping Germany free, as opposed to the "People's Storm/Fury" of the Volksturm.

The distinctions are of course quite easy to spot aside from the name, its formation would be almost that of a private army (such as the Weimar Freikorps) going offical, its also theorhetically possible (probably with some research) that the volunteers were former Freikorps veterans, the name cannot be just a co-incidence surely?
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Post by Cookie »

Maus,

Yes - a lot of men in the Volkssturm and freikorps saurland et al were prevously members of the freikorps of the interwar years. They would display their WWI medals and those of their freikorps veterans associations with pride. What made the Tiroler standschutzen and the FKS so good was their prior combat experience plus their knowledge of their home areas. Many were excellent marksmen and jaegers (hunters).

go to http://www.worldmedals.co.uk Roy Wooley has a large selection of German weimar era freikorps veteran medals as well as other civilian and party stuff. Luftschutzebund, Civilian war merit, red cross etc.

Cheers,
Mark A - AFRA
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Post by Hoffman Grink »

Not a hot topic at all.
Seeing as most folks are happy portraying their chosen subject why should they suddenly all hop off and go VS on us?

VS were not regular troops. They were a last ditch effort - So it is being suggested to us by our illustrious betters that we should all portray the heroic last stand..... Thanks for that - I'll add it to the list of suggestions such as cutting my testicles off with a rusty saw is fun, Standing in hot chip fat with bare feet gets a laugh and cleaning your teeth with battery acid will give you a brilliant white smile....

Seeing as no one has bothered joining in except me and the Maus - I can see how popular a subject the Volkssturm is. I've had enough - I'm off to read and post elsewhere.
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hi all

Post by Shergar »

hi all and there was me telling every one on the wwii forum that we all got along , jesus did i speak too soon , i think its really a case of horses for courses lol bearing in mind my name lol
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Re: hi all

Post by Wilder Feger »

Shergar wrote:hi all and there was me telling every one on the wwii forum that we all got along , jesus did i speak too soon , i think its really a case of horses for courses lol bearing in mind my name lol
I think your statement that we all get along is accurate, but just as would be expected in any group of people, we don't always agree on every topic :wink:
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volksturm

Post by pzrwest »

In the old World At War series there is a clip at the end of that tape or segment showing the volksturm marching out in Berlin and they were all dressed in overcoats, cloth coats, leather coats, with a panzerfaust over their shoulder and an armband on their arm. To do a volksturm impression you limit yourself to last stand events. You would not see one of these men earlier in the war. So it would be pointless to do the impression in my opinion
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Post by Wilder Feger »

By the way, great photos, Chris!
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Post by Cookie »

Simon,

Weren't most pictures from Germany during WW2 propagandist? I know there are the usual array of pictures that do the publishers rounds with sad looking gummy faced old boys smoking pipes wearing civvy stuff but there really was A LOT of well equipped units out there! If you are prepared to spend £25 get Hans Kissels last levy from amazon, it details a lot of units, what they had, were they were and what they were doing. It really is a very interesting subject!

Its a real shame, Paul, that you feel it necessary to lower the tone of this discussion with your last tirade which, to me at least, seems a little out of place. I've made a couple of good points about specific subjects you've rasied and you blow me out with talk of cutting off your testicles... Thats the kind of thing you complain about over there.

"Seeing as most folks are happy portraying their chosen subject why should they suddenly all hop off and go VS on us?" - Who said they should?
"VS were not regular troops" - I beg to differ. As in my earlier post I included a text from Martin Bormann laying out guidelines for the organisation and status of the VS. Wehrmacht. Combatant status. Hague convention etc. Volkssturmmanner were subject to and part of the codes and rules of the german armed forces.
"So it is being suggested to us by our illustrious betters that we should all portray the heroic last stand....." Again, who said so? Some guys in TFH who like to 'dress up' as Axis now and again thought this was something a bit different.

When I get this coppermine thing sorted out I'll get some pictures scanned of well equipped VS units - the pictures are a little grainy as they're from newsreel footage and amatuer cameramen. You can tell the staged stuff as the picture quality was way better and tended to be parades or posed with senior officers pointing at things.
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