Smock types in Normandy & Holland

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carentan
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Smock types in Normandy & Holland

Post by carentan »

We're trying to get a good balance between various smock types used in Normandy & Holland, specifically by FJR6.

So far we have been looking at a mix of Type 3 Splinter B and a few Type 1 Step-ins for Normandy. For Holland the same as Normandy, but with a few Water and Tan.

We have 15 guys so that's the ratio we're working to.

Cheers Darren
Hanging up my Knochensack for now, it's been a good war!
Hoffman Grink

Post by Hoffman Grink »

Sounds Good Darren - Try to avoid the Arkwright type in brown with the patch pocket for pencils........ although I believe Smiling Albert has one despite Muller saying he can't wear it on the display... :lol:
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Fenech
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Post by Fenech »

Darren, I think you mean type II step-ins.

For Normandy, I would suggest 50% splinter B type III & 50% step-in (both splinter & green), maybe 1 tan&water type III

For Holland, it would be much the same, but maybe a few more tan&water (upto 3 or 4)

this is based on looking at various period photos of FJ in Normandy & Holland, but they're not necessarily FJR6.

also I don't think rank would determine smock type, a veteran of earlier campaigns may well have been issued a new smock & new recruits were often issued with step-ins.


perhaps Volker would have a better idea, seeing as how he's written a book on FJR6.

PD - damn, I was thinking of getting an Arkwright type couldn't find one with prym 6 poppers though.
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Post by Pietje »

To get a good idea I think we all will post photographs of which we defenitly are sure they are about FJR 6.. That will be the best way help ...

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The photo above was taken at Roosendaal (Holland) (Nord of Woensdrecht)

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The above Photo was taken neat Groote Meer (Holland) (near Woensdrecht)

It also seems to me that a large of the men didn't wear a smock at all.. just Fliegerbluse or coats
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Post by paulmfjr2 »

Fenech wrote:Darren, I think you mean type II step-ins.

For Normandy, I would suggest 50% splinter B type III & 50% step-in (both splinter & green), maybe 1 tan&water type III

For Holland, it would be much the same, but maybe a few more tan&water (upto 3 or 4)

this is based on looking at various period photos of FJ in Normandy & Holland, but they're not necessarily FJR6.

also I don't think rank would determine smock type, a veteran of earlier campaigns may well have been issued a new smock & new recruits were often issued with step-ins.


perhaps Volker would have a better idea, seeing as how he's written a book on FJR6.

PD - damn, I was thinking of getting an Arkwright type couldn't find one with prym 6 poppers though.
I would stay well away from the splinter step in smocks there were/are a rare beast and were found mainly in the Crete campaign, not that they weren't found late war but would be ultra scarce. I agree with your 50/50 snap splinter and step in green.

Paul
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Post by Fenech »

There is photographic evidence of splinter step-in smocks worn in Normandy, look at the photo on page 135 of 'Hitler's Sky Warriors' there appears to be at least 4 splinter step-ins. But I agree that green step-ins would be far more prevailant than splinter ones.
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Post by carentan »

Ah page 135, I can tell you that the FJ with his back to the camera was in Crete.
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FJR6

Post by FJR6 »

Hello,
we know that shortly before setting out for Normandy, FJR6 received a substantial issue of new clothing of which a lot went to I. Bataillon. It consisted of splinter camo 3rd pattern smocks with maybe some converted 2nd pattern smocks sprinkled in. I. Bataillon also wore what is now called "Normandy" camouflaged helmets, photos of 1. Kompanie document this combination, but they show in other photos, too, so it is safe to assume that splinter smocks and Normandy camo helmets were widely used in FJR6.

It can be taken for granted that new clothing and kit was distributed according to seniority, which means the old hands got to choose first while the young, less experienced guys had to take what was left, e.g. the older green step-in smocks.

With the intake of replacements after the battle of Carentan, uniforms and kit started to show more variety and we can see more SD helmets and also very few marsh camo 3rd pattern smocks.

best regards,
Volker
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Post by carentan »

Thanks for inside info Volker.
Hanging up my Knochensack for now, it's been a good war!
FJR6

Post by FJR6 »

Hi Darren,
no prob.
I guess, if your unit does early Normandy, you can't go wrong with splinter camo smocks and Normandy camo helmets.

best regards,
Volker
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Post by Fenech »

FJR6 wrote:Hi Darren,
no prob.
I guess, if your unit does early Normandy, you can't go wrong with splinter camo smocks and Normandy camo helmets.

best regards,
Volker
Hi Volker,

while we all have splinter smocks, it's clear from period photos that step-in smocks were worn during the Normandy & Holland campaigns, so we need to know what percentage wore step-ins.

Also , is your book on FJR6 going to be published in English?

cheers
Geoff
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Pietje
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Post by Pietje »

Yes ! Step-in smocks were used in Holland in 1944... But I have not seen photographs yet of men of who we are defenitly sure they were part of FJR 6 in Holland....
FJR6

Post by FJR6 »

Hi,
well, we know that the splinter camo step-in smock was a pretty rare thing in itself, so I feel that it is safe to assume that nearly all 2nd pattern splinter camo smocks which FJR6 had during the Normandy campaign were actually converted to a 3rd pattern type.
The 2nd pattern green smocks seem not to have been converted, though.
I'd say that you should be wearing 3rd pattern splinter camo smocks and converted 2nd pattern splinter camo smocks in an 90:10 ratio.

best regards,
Volker
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Post by Fenech »

thanks Volker, but what percentage green step-in.
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FJR6

Post by FJR6 »

Hi,
I'd say on a 80:20 ratio. Taking the 3rd pattern/2nd pattern ration in mind, in a group of ten men you could have 7 3rd pattern splinter camo smocks, 1 converted 2nd pattern splinter camo smock and 2 2nd pattern green smocks.
That should be a good ratio.

best regards,
Volker
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