my point of this thread was to highlight that the majority of the reenacting comunity
will pull together to make sure this hobby stays free for us to portray what we want



but however we as the community in my oppinion... should also make sure the unnoficial "word is" ...some things just aint done

history is history ......i aggree.... our forefathers earnt the right for us to wear what we want
but when it goes to upsetting the verry people who suffred to earn this right ...well id rather give up doing this hobby.

it only takes pressure from europe to the government and we will be in line with them ....
may not be this year or the next five years ...but it is possible
all because the alg's wanted to dress up and look snappy in a beer tent full of us drunks ...

as i said ..historical portrayal is fine
but there where no public to see them in the beer tent
that was purely to self glorify

hello all , thought i would input into this, i have to say i agree with les , this year i noticed a marked increase in the more political natured uniform side of the event , especially when the owls were out to play !,
i myself mentioned to a friendly marshal that i especially thought that some of our over seas friends were getting a little carried away with the exicitement of it all.I know that were words of advice given to some of the more enthusiastic !!!,
i am not known to be overally p.c , however i find it quite not in the spirit of the event.
i personally enjoy the interaction of everybody its what makes the event so special.
also if people have the need to wear a uniform then at least dont wear it like somebody in a 70 s war movie.
regarding hj and bdm interaction, it gets the young involved ,our group does not allow the wearing of the hj armband. maybe one day they will take part when we all join the volksturm!!!ime sure that the most of the night time owls are mostly traders or friends of .perhaps the do s and donts should be more clearly listed , or we might get a dose of tv propaganda!!!!!brown owl

A group next to our display (mostly in in modern tents and spending the day half in/half out of uniform with modern items on show and unshaven faces) told me we were "disrespectful to the German Uniform" because we played modern music at night instead of period music. They were also "Disgusted" that UK re-enactors portrayed German soldiers, and accused Chris (who is German) of being a "baby killer".
Had to stop our Lou from slapping them.
A couple of them seemed OK, but for the most part I think they were there for a bit of uniform time as its difficult in thier own neighbourhood. Germany

Altough I agree with the statement that it isn't correct to dress up (has nothing to do with reenactment) as Allgemeine SS, it should be noted that you can't only say that you "ban political uniforms". This is because every organisation in nazi-Germany was political. The Deutsches Rotes Kreuz was just as political als all the others. Even the Wehrmacht was in some way become a political organisation, anyone remembering the speech from a GD officer saying "wir sind politischen Soldaten"?
Nevertheless, dressing up as a nazi uniform to just wear a nice uniform or as a provocation is just wrong and should be banned.

Isn't this the problem from many years Beltring?
As a 8 time veteran of the show and attending my first one in 1999 i've seen it growing.
As the show grew bigger the weirdos start turning up with (im my honest opinion) the sad appearance of a guy in a Fuhrer uniform to inspect the troops.

As re-enacters and living historians we must put the line and will not accept political uniforms.
The main problem will be where this line will be.
If you will be very strict the portayal of BDM and HJ cannot be done, even certain ellements of the Wehrmacht will be banned.

I will do anything to ban political uniforms and views from the hobby, and as serious re-enacters and living historians we must all stand on the same line.

Just my 1p worth opinion.

Sjoerd

I agree with everyone that the wearing of political uniforms in the beer tent is wrong, which is clearly out to shock and offend.

However, perhaps we should be asking the opposite... when CAN political (Allgemeine SS, SA or BUF etc) uniforms be worn?
I would suggest when it is part of a clear educational concept, which is brought over to the public in a such a way least offensive as possible.
I am thinking of perhaps a museum project where the Third Reich civil NS organisations could be illustrated by a careful display.
Further to this I would suggest that if such a display is set-up, then getting changed out of the said uniform would be a requirement, before
walking around other parts of the showground, thus causing minimal offence to the public and fellow reenactors.

In much the same way that I am bringing my Waffen-SS "BFC" display to Germany`s museums.

Cheers, Bill.

I will do anything to ban political uniforms and views from the hobby, and as serious re-enacters and living historians we must all stand on the same line.

Just my 1p worth opinion.

Sjoerd[/quote]


Maybe on-topic:
That sure doesn't count for dutchmen who like to portray the w.ss.

Let's get this in perspective.
This is a matter for the W&P show in this instance - If you did as some did when the Golden Pheasant reared his head - action will be taken. It's no good standing and looking and tutting.
The political uniform thing will be brought up at a meeting with Rex very shortly. Feedback will be given.

At W&P it's got sod all to do with what we go on about - it is about offending members of the public and/or the potential for bad publicity.

Some people in UK groups sometimes wear contentious uniforms and they know full well they are doing it.

Schwarze Engel makes the most solid comments so I suggest you read his post again. We as a community must be the arbiters of taste. It's no good doing what we usually do and fragmenting into little arguments.

BDM/HJ - Youth movements - Here to stay.
W-SS - part of the armed forces, political or not and a vital part of the scene.
SD - Not acceptable as part of the political terror machine and responsible for direct involvement in genocide.
SA - Not acceptable - Political and not relevant to WWII (only example I can think of permissible wear is PARTS of SA uniform as Volkssturm)
Allgemeine SS - Not acceptable - Largely defunct and not combat soldiers yet part of the political terror machine and had direct involvement in slave labour and genocide.

The list is not exhaustive but we all know what is and isn't acceptable. Maybe if we policed our own house a little better then we could shout about it. But we don't - Foreign visitors to shows who come and indulge themselves ought to be made very aware that they are unwelcome. BY THEIR HOSTS.

Our problem returns to the fragmented nature of our hobby - If we did have a common set of rules(or guidelines - whichever offends your sensibilities least) and we had people with a remit and the support to make a stand then we could move forwards - but for now we don't and we won't.

So stop wasting hot air and being mightily offended. You'll be writing disclaimers next!

There is a small voice in my head telling that we know eachother, but i cannot remember from where or what.
I was talking about political uniforms such as Algemeine SS, SA, Gestapo and so on.
This does not include W-SS, altough i am not the biggest fan of introducing W-SS in the Dutch scene at this moment.
For this the time isn't ready, and when it will be ready it has to be done carefully just as we've once succesfully introduced Wehrmacht re-enactment in the Netherlands.

But feel free to discuss it with me, not at this forum but somewhere else when we are enjoying a cold beer

Hope to speak to you soon, as i said before there is a small voice in my head telling we've meet before.

All the best,

Sjoerd

Ban Allgemeine SS... yes, that goes too far. But figure this, I was once called a slave-holding, Ku Klux Klan member at an event once, when I was dressed up as a Confederate infantryman (re-enactor) carrying an Army of Northern Virginia battle flag. People get offended about all sorts of things so where do we draw the line?

PD wrote:

Here is the Allgemeine SS uniform worn as Volkssturm.

This would perhaps be the only exception, otherwise I agree with a ban at shows.

Edited

exactly what i have said from the off

this is what i started this thread to highlight

eddit

i aggree

Would you include the banning of the Allgemeine SS style uniform worn by the LAH, TK and SSVT?