Awards and Decorations When transferring

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Hoffman Grink

Awards and Decorations When transferring

Post by Hoffman Grink »

If a re-enactor transfers to another group (happens all the time) what are the feelings on them keeping awards "earned" with previous group?

Is it permissible?

Should they keep the bread and butter ones but remove the long service or higher combat awards?

Should everyone automatically start from the bottom again?

What do you feel on rank? Should it come off? Should they be "demoted" to fit in with the unit they join but keep some as a mark of their experience/service?

If a re-enactor with a lot of skills and experience joins a new unit....... and is useful to that unit -do they keep rank/awards/position?????

Should there be a rule across the board or can allowances be made in certain cases?????


No agenda - just pondering hypothetical situations and also looking at the current moving about of people..... Care to discuss?
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Ted
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Post by Ted »

I guess that in real life this must have happened.. if so awards earned during campaigns for valour are & would still be valid. We have had Army / Airforce bod's change over & vica versa & they kept any rank they had at time of transfer, after all if you have compleated your junior brecon & JMLC then youve earnt it ! it cant be taken away from you.. unless you hit the beers & say the wrong thing to the wrong person ... (weve all done it!.. or was it just me ?).......
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pzrwest
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transfers

Post by pzrwest »

I would say yes you would or should be able to retain what you have earned. Of course you would have to have your soldbuch updated to show the transfer just they did in real life.
Now mind you this was peace time but when my father was posted from his artillery unit to the service corps he did loose one rank he went from a bombadier(artillery corporal) to a lance corporal for 6 months
Shergar
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paul once again your like mystic

Post by Shergar »

paul once again your like mystic meg in regards to this subject , i believe that people that have earned their awards should transfer them across in the new group as they have earned them through experience and time dedicated to the group they were previously in , but the crunch of the matter is when should other groups accept them and under what circumstances as people can leave groups for various reasons and on bad terms and should other groups accept them and perhaps destroy relationships with other groups or should there by a type of transfer proceedure that ensures that the person has left the group in good faith and just does not jump from group to group nor have any equipment belonging to their previous group .
i know this might have side stepped the issue you brought up but it is relevent to acknowledge that good communications and proceedures between groups may be a good way forward
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pzrwest
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transferring

Post by pzrwest »

In the Uk distance is not a major problem like it is here in Canada and the US. If for instance I was to move say to British Columbia from Ontario there would be no way to remain in a unit here in Ontario so transferring to a unit there would be my only option. I guess the same thing could be the same there but that's something I don't know. But I agree you would have to be a member in good standing and not leaving your old unit due to conflicts etc. And of course any unit property must be returned and any gear etc belonging to other members of your old unit as well
grenadier heeder

Post by grenadier heeder »

Retain I think Paul. Afterall, if transferring between units in the real world you would have kept everything.
In our world I've tried to let new guys keep their rank providing it was properly earnt in their last unit and not just given away. I recognise the experience that they've earnt so all I'm doing is benefitting the group with this experience..............as I see it.
Might not always work and you run the risk of course of putting the old hands noses out of joint. Depends if you manage it properly.
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Muller
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Post by Muller »

i think awards should be retained but not sure on rank although i guess evry case is slightly different?

i have just written a citiation for a member of our unit addressed to whom it may concern, i written in it to say what awards have been won / ernt and asking that his new unit carries them over.....

maybe between us we can work out a common agreeable way forward?
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LAH650
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Post by LAH650 »

Do we need rules, we are not transferring as you would in the military, one resigns/leaves one group and chooses to join another.

Surely at the point he is thinking of joining his new group those questions should be raised and answered then.

How would someone coming into a new group be viewed if he came across with a SNCO rank and someone else who had been there for say 3 years was then subordinate to him, after understanding that rank and medals are earned for time he served within that group.

If one was to leave say a US group as a SNCO would that transfer across or visa versa.

If one is a member of two or more groups does he wear all awards he is entitled too?

Some interesting questions raised
Shergar
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totally agree with the way this

Post by Shergar »

i totally agree with the direction this thread is taking .

i think that in principle board proceedures should be adopted by groups
so that people can change groups but in good faith and that harmony is kept good between groupings too , recently i know of a group that took one re-enactor in after he had switched so many times from various other groups , eventually the person jumped ship there too as well , we have to be careful not to take fair weather re-enactors as it weakens the group in the long run , as for awards if they have be earned thentransferrability of them should be considered ,
Salerno43
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Post by Salerno43 »

Excellent topic

I think you'd have to judge every case as it occurred and take a few things into consideration. When doing martial arts for example some styles will allow you to transfer belt rankings across, and wear a similar or equivalent for that style - the ones I have known base this on the award criteria and how recognised the style are, plus a serious style would be certificated etc.

So if you join a group and say I want to keep my knights cross I earn't with "insert unknown group", then maybe not.

Conversely if they came from a biggy or respected group i.e AFRA, SBG etc etc had a filled soldbuch with the gong in then why not? Maybe this would encourage the solbuch to be used for something meaningful. I know DR make good use of this.

Just as a spin on this, I was awarded IK2 by HG that was actually earn't with a different group 3 years earlier, but there was no NCO's from my group to witness it at the time.
grenadier Biermann
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Re: Awards and Decorations When transferring

Post by grenadier Biermann »

Hello lads just went trough this discussion and I'm still clueless what we talking about ??? In real life many soldiers were changing they origin units and all awards once they been awarded was in soldbuch -pay book forever!!! And they were crossing all kinds of units with it
§! And on another note as we talking about Reenactment lads is your HOBBY each of you carrying all costs your effort and time witch you may spend with family for example ?! And no one has right to treat you as a his slave ! Please don't turn this hobby to be your everyday life in work still awaiting thanks from someone and something like you've done job now you get paid NO is wrong!!! If you gonna put this way becoming POLITICAL!!! And this is no fucking good ! And we are strictly !!!non political!!! groups of collectors and people who loves history. Please wake up no one has right to keep telling something like LET THEM WAIT still sounds in my head as some of CO's were expressing themselves on this forum , guys we aren't your employers bear in mind please it shouldn't be like that and it doesn't mean I've got the money ,military collection and large tent ,some people in my group so I'm the boss NO you're completely wrong you're just another wannabe in a row . This hobby is about friendship, relaxing and discovering history so please don't mix it with everyday ruling appetite and diarrhoea Thank you for your attention
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Oberleutnant Ulrich
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Re: Awards and Decorations When transferring

Post by Oberleutnant Ulrich »

I would say yes, one should keep what they've earned so long as they also show that they are also worthy of it. If a Oberfeldwebel switches over to another group, but acts like a green recruit...maybe a change is needed. By awards, I think they should also be kept so long as it does not interfere with the groups historical accuracy, such as FJ joining the Kriegsmarine...that FJ badge would look too odd....possible, but one does not reenact the exception in most cases.

But them again, a Hauptmann switching from a large group may look out of place joining a very small group. It all depends and really comes down to making a faire judgement of the case with the approval of as many club members as possible.

But visitors should be left alone I think, I've seen people visit other units for a day and one make a fuss about the guy wearing too high of rank fro their unit and claiming he needed to remove his NCO tress and boards...treat it as a visitor....Generals visted the front lines as well including little outposts....let the big man have his fun for a day ;)

And really...it's a hobby...we shouldn't be limited so much as to what we want to reenact, let the guy have some fun and pretend to be another guy he always wanted to be for a day...it's all just for some fun. It'll be time to take it more seriously when the guns are loaded with real bullets and they're not being aimed at practice targets... :|

(Ok...and some might look at me in an odd way for saying this when in truth I'm the accuracy and realistic fanatic.... :lol: )
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geoffpara

Re: Awards and Decorations When transferring

Post by geoffpara »

Paul, that no one has yet said "well, my group's policy is this..." suggests that it is reliant on negotiation between the potential new member and the new group or that it just doesn't happen very often and most have no experience of this situation. If the 'bar' for an award/rank in your group is higher than that for someone who now wants to join your group having already been decorated/given rank what will be the impact on your membership? How will they perceive it?

This invites a new question in that is it the group leader or on a majority vote basis that a decision is based on accepting someone with their previous rank and awards? Autocracy or democracy in groups? Is a leader in position by consent or do they 'own' the group which was asked in an earlier post?

On another point what about reenactors that belong to more than one group. Those that I know have the ranks and awards worn on different tunics relative to which group they are attending with.

I've just joined a new group and am starting from the bottom again and am subject to the same constitution and policies as are all their members. Rather than thinking of reenactment as one army, which has the same criteria for awards that apply to all, it would be more correct to refer to different armies and use that as our model.

Perhaps this thread might be more informative to Paul and others if we posted what the policy was of our respective groups in regard to his question, or just that we have no policy covering this?
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stefan
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Re: Awards and Decorations When transferring

Post by stefan »

More to the point what does it matter ,we dont get paid for it ,the vast majority of real WW2 soldiers didnt have rank or awards and you can still enjoy your hobby as a none ranker as much as a NCO or Officer impression too much emphasis put on all of this stuff ,its about friends and fun, history and shared interests, not who can afford the best repro Knights Cross on the market if you join a group from out side or from another group or to do two impressions why not just turn up as a private and take it
from there ,at least you wont upset those who do put great emphasis on such things :shock:
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Oberleutnant Ulrich
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Re: Awards and Decorations When transferring

Post by Oberleutnant Ulrich »

Jaein....yes and no....

For awards yes, but for rank, no. For some it's the goal to reenact a certain role and that what they want to do. It would be kinda crappy if you were wanted to build a Tamiya scale 1/35 Tiger tank but the shop owner told you, you can't because too many people make this model. It's a hobby and you should be able to do what you want to do (to an extent). But this will be debated as long as the hobby exists.
Arthur

Leutnant Ulrich Stab./II/JG-52
Leutnant Ulrich Stab./I./756. Gren. Reg.
Leutnant Ulrich Heereshochgebirgsschule
Leutnant Ulrich Stab./I./Geb.Aufkl.Abt.54
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