General Assault Badge or Infantry Assault Badge?

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Salacious Crumb
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Re: General Assault Badge or Infantry Assault Badge?

Post by Salacious Crumb »

About the picture above: the Luftwaffe Flakbadges where probably given as the Heer Flakbadges where all handed out.

This you also have with the SS-Fallschirmjäger: the WH FJ badge was mostly given to Brandenburg and what was left to SS-FJ. When the numbers where expired, they simply gave the Luftwaffe version of the badge to those who had made their jumps and wheren't punished (the volunteers of Btl.500)
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Re: General Assault Badge or Infantry Assault Badge?

Post by RodShack »

Right - now I'm confused.

I do Infantry Bat 561 zbV. They were Infantry troop, but were GHQ allocated, almost exclusively panzerjäger (with PAKs etc), so wore pink piping.

Now the badges of the Bat CO and Ko COs show them wearing Infantry Assault Badges, however the few pictures of these COs, show them wearing the IAB. Problem is that these COs mainly came from Infantry units.

I depict my Opa - he was transferred into this bewährungs unit in '44 - after some service in the LW, then a short 3 year spell in Torgau prison. So - any previous awards would have been out of the window.

What would he have worn - GAB or IAB? I'm confused now................................... :cry:

http://www.ritterkreuztraeger-1939-45.d ... ichard.htm
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Major Richard Metzger CO I.R. 500 zbV.  CO I. Batl. 561 z.b.V.
Major Richard Metzger CO I.R. 500 zbV. CO I. Batl. 561 z.b.V.
Metzger-Richard.jpg (36.79 KiB) Viewed 7432 times
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Re: General Assault Badge or Infantry Assault Badge?

Post by BedsnHerts »

Wow. Looks like your Opa saw some action :shock:

Out of interest, what was he jailed for? (I wouldn't call three years of stir a "short spell" either :D )

Are you saying that a jail term forfeited previous combat awards?
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Re: General Assault Badge or Infantry Assault Badge?

Post by RodShack »

BedsnHerts wrote:Wow. Looks like your Opa saw some action :shock:

Out of interest, what was he jailed for? (I wouldn't call three years of stir a "short spell" either :D )

Are you saying that a jail term forfeited previous combat awards?
This guy isn't my Opa - but his Bat & Regt CO - though 500 & 561 did see a lot of action being used as a firefighting unit to prevent Russian advances in Army Group North. All the boys ended up in Kurland and were not evacuated. His Ko CO was a Ritterkreuz holder - as well as most Ko Co's for bewahrungs battalions.

My Opa was had the humble holder of the EKI, Black Wound badge and Assault Badge - but which one, I'm not sure and rank of Obergefreiter. He died before I was born, so only info from my grandmother - who is now dead (ain't mortality great).

As far as I'm aware - troops sent to any military prison were stripped of any rank or awards they may have held when entering the institution. When coming out, they were classed as second class soldiers - assigned to the most hazardous of duties. There is some info on my website - http://www.561zbv.co.uk under the document section. There are also some Red Cross reports detailing some actions 561 took part in.

As to why he was jailed - not too sure, but his marriage broke up and I can only imagine he done a bunk, so was probably done for desertion and some other civil fellony............... :roll:

Here is my Opa's Ko CO - Hptm Walter Busch: http://www.ritterkreuztraeger-1939-45.d ... Walter.htm

OK - what badge do OI wear?
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Hptm Walther Busch Fhr der 1.Ko 561zbV
Hptm Walther Busch Fhr der 1.Ko 561zbV
Busch-Walter.jpg (33.4 KiB) Viewed 7410 times
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Re: General Assault Badge or Infantry Assault Badge?

Post by Peiper »

Intresting subject, there is also the unknown subject of the General Assault badge in bronze, most ref books are unsure
who and what services were awarded it, i have an original made by Assmann so any info would be appreciated.
Regards Peiper :wink:
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Re: General Assault Badge or Infantry Assault Badge?

Post by Hoffman Grink »

To clarify most sources are unsure as to if it was ever issued - not to whom....... There is a fair amount of debate as to whether they are wartime, post war, genuine, unissued or whatever - Certainly in my lifetime I have NEVER seen a period photo displaying the Allgemeines Sturmabzeichen in Bronze. There is a distinct lack of certification evidence too..... Whereas all other authenticated decorations carry certificates which can be used to verify their issue.

Would be genuinely interested to see photos of your award - and the "A" Stamp of Assman.
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Re: General Assault Badge or Infantry Assault Badge?

Post by RodShack »

:cry:

But does anyone know what was generally issued to PAK crews? Please.............................? :)
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Re: General Assault Badge or Infantry Assault Badge?

Post by Hoffman Grink »

Nice one Rod - deserves a reply - will do some digging - As Panzer Abwehr Kanone crews were basically Anti Tank Infantry it would follow that they would qualify for the InfanterieSturmAbchiezen in Silber.......... PanzerJaeger crews Qualified for PanzerKampfAbzeichen in Bronze........ as did PanzerGrenadieren.

Have you searched photo archives?
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Re: General Assault Badge or Infantry Assault Badge?

Post by RodShack »

Thanks Paul

I have to admit that most pics I've seen of PAK crews haven't helped, due to the either the camera angle etc. What books I have doesn't help and Google isn't great. :o

Anyone got any pointers?
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Re: General Assault Badge or Infantry Assault Badge?

Post by Brigardefuhrer »

In Angolia's book 'For Fuhrer and Fatherland' vol;1,states the general assault badge was originally issued to engineer units,but was extended to include members of the artillery,engineers,anti-tank and anti-aircraft units that served the infantry and armor in an auxilliary role in the conduct of the assault.
I would also like to see the 'bronze' version,as I have never come accross this before.
John.
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I wish none but those who desire to be actively engaged".
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Re: General Assault Badge or Infantry Assault Badge?

Post by Peiper »

Brigardefuhrer wrote:In Angolia's book 'For Fuhrer and Fatherland' vol;1,states the general assault badge was originally issued to engineer units,but was extended to include members of the artillery,engineers,anti-tank and anti-aircraft units that served the infantry and armor in an auxilliary role in the conduct of the assault.
I would also like to see the 'bronze' version,as I have never come accross this before.
John.

Will get some pics up of the bronze "G-A" badge hopefully tomorrow when i get access to my
gear which is stored at my parents house and am visiting, i haven't got room at mine lol

Apparantly in the "Angolia" Awards and decorations book the award was mentioned but info
was vague and limited but apparantly was issued but in limited numbers according to Angolia.

Pipes :wink:
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Re: General Assault Badge or Infantry Assault Badge?

Post by Brigardefuhrer »

Must be in later revised editions,my copy is a first edition and does'nt mention it,like me its out of date and behind with the times :lol:
"I require able bodied men,with good horse and gun.
I wish none but those who desire to be actively engaged".
"Come on boys,if you want a heap of fun and to kill some yankees".
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Re: General Assault Badge or Infantry Assault Badge?

Post by Franz repper »

Brigardefuhrer wrote:Must be in later revised editions,my copy is a first edition and does'nt mention it,like me its out of date and behind with the times :lol:
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Re: General Assault Badge or Infantry Assault Badge?

Post by Brigardefuhrer »

:oops: Aw!shucks
"I require able bodied men,with good horse and gun.
I wish none but those who desire to be actively engaged".
"Come on boys,if you want a heap of fun and to kill some yankees".
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Re: General Assault Badge or Infantry Assault Badge?

Post by Panzer Wittman »

With ref to your ga badge bronze, any chance you could kick off a new thread with your pics of it when you have them?
I would be with Herr Grink in the oppinion that it almost certainly has to be post-war. Either from scratch or a redipped silver. A bronze ga badge wasn't even a projected design at the war's end, and certainly not in production. As Herr Grink has stated also - no period photos and not even a record of an award on paper.
Would still love to see it and if you can point us in the direction of awards books which site it as possible real that'd be an intereting read too. A prototype ... Possible
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