Coastal Artillery summer/tropical outfit

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askhati
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Coastal Artillery summer/tropical outfit

Post by askhati »

I am looking at a late-war Coastal Artillery impression for a summer/tropical posting, based on the image below:

Image

The impression I have in mind goes a little something like this:
- rank = Unterfeldwebel (unsure of the KM Coastal Artillery equivalent)
- tunic = M40, HBT - http://hikishop.com/wwii-german-em-sold ... p-445.html
...being of NCO rank, this would need the yellow tresse around the collar; pebbled buttons would also need to be replaced with KM buttons
- trousers = FJ jump trousers, tropical - http://hikishop.com/ww2-german-luftwaff ... p-576.html
...not sure what the soldier in the photo is wearing, the pocket on the one thigh reminded me of the FJ trousers
- KM Coastal Artillery breast eagle - http://epicmilitaria.com/product.php/14 ... en-backing
- KM Coastal Artillery litzen - http://www.hessenantique.com/KM_Coastal ... ati101.htm
...the text from the book suggests that these litzen need to be mounted on the same bottle-green diamonds as the early-war Heer litzen - was this practice still in use by '44?
- KM Coastal Artillery boards - http://www.hessenantique.com/KM_Coastal ... ati112.htm
...being of NCO rank, this would need the yellow tresse around the board

This is only a rough draft of what I have in mind for the tunic and its insignia, so any advice would be appreciated. I have specifically chosen the tropical HBT outfit due to our warm climate, even though I know that info on the tropical KM Coastal Artillery units will be even more scarce...

Thanks in advance!
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christiandbn
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Re: Coastal Artillery summer/tropical outfit

Post by christiandbn »

I've look at doing a tropical KM impression a few years back so I had started to research a bit and look at some items in various collections.

I can confidently say that the trousers are nothing like the Luftwaffe baggy ones. You'd have more luck with a Heer Tropical trousers in brown. I'd also go fro a tropical tunic in brown, rather than an HBT. It's more of a typical, regulation uniform. What you're seeing there is an artistic impression.
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askhati
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Re: Coastal Artillery summer/tropical outfit

Post by askhati »

christiandbn wrote:What you're seeing there is an artistic impression.
Problem with any re-coloured photo, I guess... :P

The Heer DAK trousers were green, were they not? I was not aware of any other tropical or brown trousers they had, apart from the tan ones that the Luftwaffe DAK forces used. Can you link to any vendors with these trousers in repro?

The tunic I specifically want to be the Heer HBT one (in terms of colouration and cut), as I understand that it would have been encountered in France around the same time as D-Day. I should have been more specific in my first post: when I said 'summer/tropical', I was referring specifically to the summer outfits in the ETO, and not the more tan/brown/DAK uniforms from the Mediterranean theater. If the Heer forces were using the reed green HBT uniforms at the time, and the KM coastal guys were drawing from the same/similar stockpiles, then I don't imagine it being too improbable for them to also use green HBT tunics. Would specifically appreciate more info on this point, actually.

The mix of green tunic and tan trousers is also a big drawing point for me towards this impression, at least visually. (rookie choice, I know, I know...)
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christiandbn
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Re: Coastal Artillery summer/tropical outfit

Post by christiandbn »

In late 1944, linen HBT would be more popular. By that time, cotton availability was at a premium, and usually from surplus from France by then. By 1944, the wehrmacht converged on one colour of HBT uniforms. That was green. Even Luftwaffe changed their Blue HBT uniforms to green.

If you strictly want to go for a cotton tropical trousers, You can: Either get a Green DAK trousers and bleech it, or get one made for you. I can help you out with a tan trousers in the Heer cut if you want, and also with HBT feldbluse. Pm me.
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askhati
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Re: Coastal Artillery summer/tropical outfit

Post by askhati »

I found some sand-coloured Heer trousers on hiki:
- http://hikishop.com/wwii-german-dak-afr ... p-949.html

Together with one of the Heer M40 HBT tunics, that should suffice as a base for the impression? Everything after that is just a matter of insignia: the chest eagle, the boards, the litzen (going to mount them), the belt buckle, and the yellow NCO braid on the collar and boards.
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christiandbn
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Re: Coastal Artillery summer/tropical outfit

Post by christiandbn »

Looks to be ok. however, for 1944, you mightwant to look for an m42 pattern one. I think it's more appropriate. Yes then the insignia should finish it off nicely.
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Jagdpanther
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Re: Coastal Artillery summer/tropical outfit

Post by Jagdpanther »

I've never seen any pictures of Kriegsmarine Coastal Artillery troops wearing Heer pattern HBT or tropical tunics. The Kriegsmarine tropical tunics were of quite a different pattern to the Heer ones, a bit more like a Luftwaffe one in some ways, with most having a fake French cuff, like a Luftwaffe one, but the Kriegsmarine ones mostly had distinctive pockets with "squared off" lower corners to all four pockets. There were also a number of pre-war tropical KM tunics that they used, some without pocket flaps on the lower pocket, and a "stand" collar. The tropical tunics were cotton and ranged in colour from tan (sometimes quite yellowish tan) through an earth brown colour to a light brownish green.

As far as I am aware there was no such thing as an issue Kriegsmarine HBT tunic, although it seems that at least some units stationed in France unofficially had their own made up locally in HBT, but in the cut of the standard tropical KM tunic (i.e. with French cuffs and squared off pocket corners). (If you've got a copy of "German Soldiers of World War two" by Jean de Lagarde, see page 88 for one of these tunics.)

For some examples of tropical KM tunics see: https://www.warrelics.eu/forum/heer-luf ... nic-97984/
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Re: Coastal Artillery summer/tropical outfit

Post by christiandbn »

What you say is true, but askhati here is looking for a mashup from possible products. The tropical colour of the KM is also quite different from the LW.

If your group can wait, I'm confident someone will come up with some KM tropical uniforms. however, if your impression is of D-day, I don't think tropical uniforms are the way to go either. Souther France might be a different story however.
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askhati
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Re: Coastal Artillery summer/tropical outfit

Post by askhati »

So this is what we should be looking for, in repro form:

Image

Image

Good thing my lady is a couture fashion designer: I'm going to give her a Heer HBT tunic to reverse-engineer, these pics as reference, and the proper tan cotton material. Fingers crossed!
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Jagdpanther
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Re: Coastal Artillery summer/tropical outfit

Post by Jagdpanther »

askhati wrote:So this is what we should be looking for, in repro form:

Image

Image

Good thing my lady is a couture fashion designer: I'm going to give her a Heer HBT tunic to reverse-engineer, these pics as reference, and the proper tan cotton material. Fingers crossed!
That's the one askhati..! Pity no repros currently exist, you'll have to get your lady to make a few, might be a market for them...! I've found a decent picture of a HBT one too, as you see, it is of exactly the same cut as the trop one in your picture..

Image

More pics here:

http://www.therupturedduck.com/WebPages ... s/u164.htm
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askhati
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Re: Coastal Artillery summer/tropical outfit

Post by askhati »

Jagd, if I look at that HBT one you posted, I'm seeing the following:

- Heer M40 tunic, HBT (pleated pockets, scalloped pocket flaps), with the following changes
A) different buttons (easy to change, as they are fixed in with hooks)
...Are those the KM anchor-and-rope buttons, but in grey? Thought they only came in gold.
B) squared-off pocket edges (will see how hard this is to change)
C) fake French cuffs (same as above - might be easy to do, or not)
...The fake cuff is basically just a slightly protruding seam there, right? Doesn't look any fancier than that.

Everything else is just a matter of insignia - eagle, litzen, boards - and can be easily added.
Last edited by askhati on Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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SplinterA
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Re: Coastal Artillery summer/tropical outfit

Post by SplinterA »

askhati wrote: I should have been more specific in my first post: when I said 'summer/tropical', I was referring specifically to the summer outfits in the ETO, and not the more tan/brown/DAK uniforms from the Mediterranean theater.
Then why are you wanting the tropical trousers to put with a green jacket. That is tropical mixed with temperate and very, very unlikely to be seen in Northern France in 1944?
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askhati
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Re: Coastal Artillery summer/tropical outfit

Post by askhati »

SplinterA wrote: Then why are you wanting the tropical trousers to put with a green jacket. That is tropical mixed with temperate and very, very unlikely to be seen in Northern France in 1944?
I was going with the example set by the photo I had posted initially. I think we have established by now that it might not be the most correct representation, thanks (see for example the thigh pocket present in the photo).
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askhati
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Re: Coastal Artillery summer/tropical outfit

Post by askhati »

A quick comparison of possible donor tunics:

Image

The M36 Officer's tunic, in HBT (from hikishop) would seem to be the closest bet:
- change the collar
- unpick the pockets, and redo them with diagonal corners
- change all the buttons to gray KM ones
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askhati
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Re: Coastal Artillery summer/tropical outfit

Post by askhati »

Image

Image

This one is even closer - just the bottom pockets and the buttons need to change. The upper pockets are fine, and the fake French cuffs are there.

Hmm...
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