Last 2 years through Courts. A word of thanks also.

[Franz repper]

does the NI rules apply to GB?, if so does this mean we can use forward venting weapons? sorry if this has been asked before.
graham

Speak with feildjager or hoffman Grink they are the best informed on this topic

[Feldjager]

does the NI rules apply to GB?, if so does this mean we can use forward venting weapons? sorry if this has been asked before.
graham

NI is subject to slightly different legislation than England, Scotland and Wales. This basically stems from historic issues specific to that part of the UK.

Front venting weapons are not illegal, per se it depends on whether they can be readily converted to fire a live round. FA 82 brought in the provisions which control imitation firearms which can be readily converted to become a section 1 firearm (and now section 5, following the changes in classification of handguns and semi auto weapons). Section 1(6) is the relevant bit:

For the purposes of this section an imitation firearm shall be regarded as readily convertible into a firearm to which section 1 of the 1968 Act applies if—
(a)it can be so converted without any special skill on the part of the person converting it in the construction or adaptation of firearms of any description; and
(b)the work involved in converting it does not require equipment or tools other than such as are in common use by persons carrying out works of construction and maintenance in their own homes.

Basically if the man of the Clapham omnibus can buy the necessary items in B&Q and then get it to (a) chamber a live round and (b) discharge it; then by definition of the above it could be held to be a section 1 (or section 5) firearm. Whether the item was destroyed when the round was fired is irrelevant, the pertinent facts are that it chambered the round and discharged it. Note that the definition of firearm is given by section 57(1) FA 68.

The legalities of 'readily convertible' would have to be argued in court, and the onus probandi would be for the prosecution to prove that the item could be converted under section 1(6) FA 82. My reference books are in work, but there isn't a massive amount of case law in this area.

Again, NI has slightly different provisions in respect of this.

[Von ryan]

Yes Northern Ireland is slightly different as it operates under the Firearms (NI) Order 2004. Some aspects of the legislation are similar. For example, in relation specifically to the Blank Firing guns which were alledgedly 'designed for the discharge of noxious gas', had this have been accepted by the court, they would be prohibited under Article 46 of the Firearms Order. By the same regard that would make them Section 5 on the mainland, so the principles are similar, but the actual legislation is not.

It was specifically agreed upon in court that no where in legislation does it state where a blank fire gun has to vent from, so the mere fact that they vent from the front does NOT make them prohibited and/or readily convertible. After a long arguement this was agreed by the prosecution forensic scientist rather reluctantly!!

[Hoffman Grink]

My learned friend Feldjager speaks truth. The short and plain English answer to your question Graham is - Don't use a front venting weapon as it presents a risk. Generally they are "thought" to be illegal and the police consider them readily convertible. Good sense dictates that should you be challenged with a front venting b/f pistol of the type readily available you stand a very good chance of ending up in a long and costly legal action; the outcome of which is uncertain. More often than not you will accept a caution and have the article sent for destruction. There was a case some years ago involving the Twins from Hull in 21Pz who had MP3008s and a Bruni ME38 (P38 replica) seized and they submitted to a caution and destruction of the articles.......

Talking about it and actually experiencing it - as von Ryan will attest ,are two worlds apart.

Bottom line - "If in doubt - don't get it out".

Hope this is seen as good common sense advice.

[pepperpot]

Our man in N.Z makes F.V mp3008 and others like it, and as i understand has Home Office approval to import and supply. I must admit i'd like to see some idiot convert a bruni front venting to live fire, i think about 300M away would be safe!! there would be bits of bruni all over the place along with the idiot pulling the trigger.
graham

[SchnellMeyer]

Well done Ryan , great to see you got the right result . Now hopefully you can get back to enjoying the hobby .

[gurowski]

Basically if the man of the Clapham omnibus can buy the necessary items in B&Q and then get it to (a) chamber a live round and (b) discharge it; then by definition of the above it could be held to be a section 1 (or section 5) firearm.

No entirely correct to say "live round". These regs not only pertains to live ammunition but any shot, missile, bullet or projectile.

So if you could load a blank round and fire a ball bearing or other such item out, then it is classed as readily convertible, and your in the crap.
This was the method used by some gangsta wannabe tossers in London with converted blank firers some years back.
The worrying thing is, if you think carefully about this for a minute, you can see how this (firing a ball bearing) is achievable even with a top venting BF.

[gurowski]

The one point of interest in relation to my case was the 'Front Venting' blank firers that I possessed. They were the German made guns from Umarex and Erma, and were alledgedly 'designed for the discharge of noxious gas', i.e. CS, CN or Mace. After a week of legal wrangling from Police Forensic Scientists and my own Defence Forensic Scientist, the court rejected that these items were prohibited as they were not designed for the discharge of noxious gas, hence they are not prohibited, they are merely blank firers.

I have a reenactor friend in Sweden being charged with exactly the same charge, that he has a CS gas pistol, when infact its a BF that he has owned for 20 or so years. His trial is in a weeks time.

[Von ryan]

Keep me updated, Im curious to know how this goes for him. I hope it goes well, and I hope he doesn't submit to any pressure put on him prior to the trial to take some form of plea bargain deal!