French surrender

[Peiper]

Thanks for your response Franz
My appologies if my information was incorrect i am only going by what ive read and
what ive been told (By my Grandfather who was a Sergeant at Dunkirk with the TA
Staffordshire Btl)

Although seeing as though this information refers to "TA" i imagine regular Units
such as the Guards, Dragoons etc would be better equipped, even though the TA
were part of the first fully trained British Units that Britain had ready at that time
and were the first Units dispatched to France with the B,E,F.

Regards Peiper.

Hello my Grandad was at Dunkirk he had joined the Artillery but ended up as a Sergeant in the catering corps , many of my Mothers Uncle's joined the TA in the late 30s and were the first to go , They all thought it would be fun to get 2 weeks off in the summer for Training , little did they know what was coming , I was in the TA myself in the early 80s just as the Falklands kicked off VILLY

Thanks for that Villy
As for my Grandad he had been in WW1 then in the 20's joined the TA and stopped in till WW2, after Dunkirk he had been
kept back as an NCO weapons Instructor because of his age and assigned to the "Regular Staffordshire Regt", he finished
the War as a Staff Sgt.

Basically he was one of many, the reason i mentioned this was because i had been told by a "vet" what weaponary was
used at Dunkirk and by a weapons instructor so he knew what he was about, he had said they had been issued the old WW1
Enfields with long bayonets and WW1 webbing gear and also he reckoned the squads were issued Lewis guns.

A lot of people believe what they read in books, basically at the very start of the War Britain had nothing the BEF had been
sent to Dunkirk ill equipped, the Units which were sent later admittedly had better but these were "Regular Army Units" not
TA, a lot of books refer to what the British Army were issued but in my opinion and what ive been told this was just " on
paper" not real life.

A recollection my Grandad mentioned once was they were so under equipped they were left with 20 round of ammo per man
and the Lewis guns were ditched because they had no ammo for them when they had to trudge the 20 odd miles back to
Dunkirk after they had been given the order to retreat, also they had to forage for food because there was none issued,
does this sound like a well equipped fighting force to you, not to me it doesn't. lol

Regards Peiper.

[Jim]

Most front line units BEF had been issued with 37 pattern Battle dress and webbing although i am sure some still had the 08 pattern stuff.
There was nothing wrong with the No3 rifle or the lewis gun.
The Common misconception that the BEF were poorly armed/equipped is utter pants and they were more than a match if they had been led differently.
It was purely down to the fact the allies had a rigid defensive strategy that was no match for the rapid mechanised attacks of Germany.

[Peiper]

The Common misconception that the BEF were poorly armed/equipped is utter pants and they were more than a match if they had been led differently.
It was purely down to the fact the allies had a rigid defensive strategy that was no match for the rapid mechanised attacks of Germany.

That's your opinion lol, im going from someone who was actually there not Wikipedia!!

[Jim]

The Common misconception that the BEF were poorly armed/equipped is utter pants and they were more than a match if they had been led differently.
It was purely down to the fact the allies had a rigid defensive strategy that was no match for the rapid mechanised attacks of Germany.

That's your opinion lol, im going from someone who was actually there not Wikipedia!!

You believe what you wish.
And why should you not believe your relative but maybe just maybe i may also have spoken with people who were there and not as you state Wikpedia..

[Peiper]

The Common misconception that the BEF were poorly armed/equipped is utter pants and they were more than a match if they had been led differently.
It was purely down to the fact the allies had a rigid defensive strategy that was no match for the rapid mechanised attacks of Germany.

That's your opinion lol, im going from someone who was actually there not Wikipedia!!

You believe what you wish.
And why should you not believe your relative but maybe just maybe i may also have spoken with people who were there and not as you state Wikpedia..

Fair enough, you are entitled to your own opinion as iam myself

But in general (not you) but people seemed to believe what they read in books, basically this wasn't always the case, as for
the Dunkirk situation things didn't seem as black and white as was written, War historians/writers seem to generalise on
what and what not was issued or happened as they do with a lot of other subjects, in reality things were very different, this
was just my opinion by the way obviously other people have their own views on the subject, but as for saying someones
opinion is "pants" especially when refferring to an opinion of someone who was actually there isn't cricket old boy

Regards Peiper

[Crazy Feldgendarme]

Now now gentlemen dont start an argument over this and get personal.
My Father was also with the BEF (1st Batt the Berkshire Regiment) and Dunkirk, indeed he spent his 21st birthday in a bunker waiting for the Germans to attack. His recollections are that the Germans were simply to good and to fast moving for them plus the BEF and the French were still using tactics from WW1 including using there (arguably better) tanks piecemeal and as infantry support instead of in massed formations to breakthrough the enemy.
Regarding issued equipment ie the 37 pattern uniforms etc because these items were made during peace time they therefore had less of a hurry to manufacture them and because of this tended to be of better quality than the later stuff manufactured in the war.
Remember these are my Fathers opinions not mine.

[Franz repper]

Herr Peiper Look its plain and simple the the British army were one of the only Fully equiped motorised armys they were under going change of equpment and uniform 37 pattern webbing and 37 uniform . The line units would get this first and the only the regular Battalions once this is done the TA would then get issued equpment
Some TA battalions did go to France with the the old 08 pattern uniforms and webbing like you have said going by what you Grandfather said it sounds as if he was in such a unit and this info has come from books and Veterans one who was with the Glosters in France
So Regular first line units new equpment second line units a mix of old and new
the TA would be 08 pattern with some new stuff

[Steiner]

Even 08 patt webbing is better than the German leather stuff! And the K98K was a slight variant on the K98, which dated from...?

Mind you, good as the Bren was, it was no match for the MG34.

[Villy Vassel]

Even 08 patt webbing is better than the German leather stuff! And the K98K was a slight variant on the K98, which dated from...?

Mind you, good as the Bren was, it was no match for the MG34.

Yes the k98k was only a shortened G98 , the mg34 was a lot better than the Bren , After reading a lot of comments on this subject , In the end it was German tactics and leadership not really equipment , in short BLITZKRIEG , LIGHTNING , WAR.!!!

[Steiner]

And French surrendering.

[Villy Vassel]

Thanks for your response Franz
My appologies if my information was incorrect i am only going by what ive read and
what ive been told (By my Grandfather who was a Sergeant at Dunkirk with the TA
Staffordshire Btl)

Although seeing as though this information refers to "TA" i imagine regular Units
such as the Guards, Dragoons etc would be better equipped, even though the TA
were part of the first fully trained British Units that Britain had ready at that time
and were the first Units dispatched to France with the B,E,F.

Regards Peiper.

Hello my Grandad was at Dunkirk he had joined the Artillery but ended up as a Sergeant in the catering corps , many of my Mothers Uncle's joined the TA in the late 30s and were the first to go , They all thought it would be fun to get 2 weeks off in the summer for Training , little did they know what was coming , I was in the TA myself in the early 80s just as the Falklands kicked off VILLY

Thanks for that Villy
As for my Grandad he had been in WW1 then in the 20's joined the TA and stopped in till WW2, after Dunkirk he had been
kept back as an NCO weapons Instructor because of his age and assigned to the "Regular Staffordshire Regt", he finished
the War as a Staff Sgt.

Basically he was one of many, the reason i mentioned this was because i had been told by a "vet" what weaponary was
used at Dunkirk and by a weapons instructor so he knew what he was about, he had said they had been issued the old WW1
Enfields with long bayonets and WW1 webbing gear and also he reckoned the squads were issued Lewis guns.

A lot of people believe what they read in books, basically at the very start of the War Britain had nothing the BEF had been
sent to Dunkirk ill equipped, the Units which were sent later admittedly had better but these were "Regular Army Units" not
TA, a lot of books refer to what the British Army were issued but in my opinion and what ive been told this was just " on
paper" not real life.

My own Grandad did not talk about Dunkirk all I really know was that he got back on a Coal Boat, My Gran said he had given some French people Chocolate and some other food and they helped him , I would like to know more about his War escapades but he never talked much about it , he also said he never killed any Germans, when I asked him as a small Boy . my Mothers Uncles did see a lot more action than my Grandad , but they are all Dead .??? VILLY

[Peiper]

Herr Peiper Look its plain and simple the the British army were one of the only Fully equiped motorised armys they were under going change of equpment and uniform 37 pattern webbing and 37 uniform . The line units would get this first and the only the regular Battalions once this is done the TA would then get issued equpment
Some TA battalions did go to France with the the old 08 pattern uniforms and webbing like you have said going by what you Grandfather said it sounds as if he was in such a unit and this info has come from books and Veterans one who was with the Glosters in France
So Regular first line units new equpment second line units a mix of old and new
the TA would be 08 pattern with some new stuff

Thanks for your response Franz
That's what ive been saying kamerad, what was written on paper is not necessarily
what occurred, like the old saying "An Army that marches on paper!" lol

Cheers Pipes