Mystery Quest - Hitler`s Escape

[Jonny]

This Documentary is very Interesting.... Its made by History Channel and very well done..
It will have you on the edge of your chair...


A group of historians explore the idea that Hitler may have escaped from his bunker and never committed suicide as history notes. Evidence examined includes a piece of skull found at the bunker site by the Russians.


Mystery Quest - Hitler`s Escape (part 1 of 5)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iM5fCI0Y ... re=related



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huqNzFnA ... re=related



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vz9ggRJE ... re=related



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XYWG6LHmqE



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZviJkDvzvfU



Jonny

[Tychsen]

Things like this just don't have the legs Johnny , the gents who made it / make it seem possible do a good job but it is always at odds with the facts and the limited opportunity all who remained had for evading the Soviets.

One of Eichmann's sons's maintains that Bormann escaped but Bormann's remains were found .

[Jonny]

Indeed, but I am open to any Scientific research done on it.
If you watch it you will see that the skull is from a young female, not of a man in his 50s.
Now that has "legs" in my eyes.
Moreover Rochus changed his "story" a few times, why? Old age? anyhow...

Now by saying this I don't support the Idea that he got away, until someone has a more acceptable hypothesis supported by hard evidence then I with reconsider.

Now Bormann is a different story for me, I have looked into it and I think personally there is more behind the story.
Here is a few reasons why.

When his body was found in the 1970s they did confirm that the body in question was him, due to a DNA test.

But the body found had something quite strange on it ,red clay, not common for the area, nor for Berlin in that matter.
This indicated that his body was moved, maybe to go with the official story or a cover up? Who knows?

His close aid Zander was captured in Passau in Austria in December 1945.

Simon Wiesenthal refused the official report that he died in the bunker.

There is more to believe that he did not die in the Bunker.
I personally do not think he did in the Bunker...

Regards

Jonny

[Tychsen]

Who would move a body , who would want to cover up for Bormann so long after the war ?
Bormann was deeply unpopular amongst those left in Berlin and without Hitler he was a nobody hated by all , he had no friends to call upon - he was on his own.
It is difficult to see anyone going out of their way to help him , he had stood on too many people on his way up to have any friends on his way down.
Tony Le Tissier a well respected author on the Battle for Berlin and the fate of those who remained in Hitler's bunker

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Books/s?ie=UTF8 ... ier&page=1

( cont) does not seem to harbour any doubts as to the fate of Bormann or Hitler.
The Russians did not find Hitler's remains at once but they did go to some lengths spurred on by Stalin's paranoia to brutally interrogate the survivors from Hitler's entourage for a considerable period to satisfy Stalin's fears that Hitler had indeed escaped.
I don't have any doubts that Hitler took his own life and his body was burnt in accordance with his instructions.

I didn't see this on TV but have looked at the clips - it is all rather short on answers and high on speculation .
The author who believes that Hitler was flown out by Hanna Reitsch and taken to Argentina on a U-Boat .
For that he would have to have been gotten ( unseen even by German soldiers , sailors and air men) to Norway and he would have had to have lived for 2 months on a submarine underwater in the close proximity to her 50 man crew ( unseen by them) all of whom would have had to known or to be trusted 110% to say nothing , nothing at all - chances of that - nil.
In 1945 Hitler was a sick man he had Parkinsons disease which was well advanced , he was a drug addict - he was not fit for a sea voyage by submarine and he would never have taken it.
For him to have taken it Donitz would have to have known - and Donitz sat in the dock deserted by AH his Fuhrer and said nothing - very unlikely.

In terms of national interests - Hitler alive and well in Argentina or South America - there would be more political gain , national interest to be served and US investment to be secured than there ever could equalled by allowing Hitler to be at large even in a never to be seen existence.

The skull being a woman , I was under the impression that the only fragment of Hitler's skull which remained was a small part around which the bullet has exited....an almost intact or partially intact skull - never been seen before.

The nature of these programmes is to be speculative - they did not address the possibility that the skull parts they saw may have been Eva Hitler's ......... or even the possibility that the Russians didn't show them the actual remains which they had , they may have substituted others ...... it is about making a TV show and inciting speculation.
As far as DNA goes , they didn't really prove anything other than the blood stains came from a man

They do not really look at the nature of Stalin and why he spread so many rumours accusing the Allies of hiding Hitler all cold war mind games , propaganda and mistrust.
Nothing really new there.

This show asks questions but it does not answer them , it is speculation at best and it does not provide any proof that Hitler did not take his own life in 1945 , none at all , it merely speculates that he did not.

As far as a double goes - the double would have to have fooled everyone in the bunker even
Hitler flying out earlier to get away - no chance , none at all it just does not fit with the man himself .Eva Braun , Bormann was no hero and he heldall access to Hitler - chances of Bormann staying on with Hitler gone - nil.
So what chance Goring , Himmler , Bormann , Goebbels , Speer , Kietel - all being fooled by a double nil IMO.

Hitler escapes - how likely is it that he does not surface , that he lives out his life undiscovered - chances are so remote it does quickly become conspiracy theory .
More hope of him living next store to Maggie and telling her how to run the Tory party.

[Franz repper]

There was a very good article in Then and Now about this with never seen before photos . My view is the Old man never made it out the bunker alive

[Hoffman Grink]

It is an open secret that Hitler actually lived the latter days of his life in Hitchin where he had an allotment alongside Greg Cottee's grandad. Mister Hilton as he changed his name to, was a quiet neighbour who lived on a private pension paid by the Union Bank of Switzerland where he said he had been a security guard during the war.
He was a peculiar figure around the neighbourhood and more so in that he was a vegetarian - rare for those days. He complained of arthritis which he put down to standing about in the rain but when he died, pathologists found several pieces of shrapnel lodged in his buttocks and lower back......

Mister Hilton was never married it seems and as such had no kids - but he was very kind to all the nippers on the estate - back in the times of innocence when people weren't labelled kiddy fiddler just for smiling at a youngster, he always had an Uncle Joes mintball or a boiled sweet for the urchins playing football on a bomb site or in the street. He used to say - "Kids are our future - we should look after them"

Greg's grandad used to recall how Mister Hilton would stare with a long face at the smashed ruins of houses being cleared by the bull dozers and mutter - "How sad...... how awful...... if only it could have been different". He never quite worked out what he meant.

Once, one Sunday afternoon - Greg can recall as a wee nipper himself - ask him - he'll tell you - A line of big black cars pulled up outside Mister Hilton's bungalow and several men visited him - One of them was introduced to Gregg and his Grandad as Raymond Hendrick, a businessman from Wolverhampton..... he was tall, whitehaired man with a roman nose and a very elegant bearing according to Gregg. The other one was a small, dark haired man with a moustache and a Panama hat called Rudolph White -a doctor who was leaving to live in Buenos Aires...... Mister Hendrick had brought Rudoplh to see Arnold (Mister Hilton's first name) before he left.

Mister Hilton's cabbages were to die for apparently and the veg he grew on his allotment was always huge and very tasty. He put it down to keeping the ground well fertilised and he swore by potash and bonemeal......

When he died in 1968 it is recalled that not many people went to his funeral but a young lady sat at the back weeping - she appeared to be expecting a baby - ...... hmmmmmmm

[Hoffman Grink]

Greg knocks about with Danny Howard now - they have been friends since childhood and Danny is a fair bit younger than Greg

[Tychsen]

He took his holidays in the same boarding house in the North east ...every year ....... with Ron , and Mr. Bimbler.
Mr Bimbler was a retired window cleaner who was not head of Gestapo.
Rumour had ir he lost his deposit on the North Mine head election of 1971 and retired to help his friend Mr.Ben-ito out in the Axis Cafe....... there is also a rumour that he opened a Hotel in Torquay which was very successful.

[Hoffman Grink]

It's not rumour - they had friends in Co Tyrone - The O'Goebbels........ Paddy and Mary - Who ran a public house called "The Running Man" which was a B&B where many old soldiers spent some time after the war....

The McHess's were another family who came into the spotlight in the 60s when their pig farming business was boycotted by certain religious groups.......

There are hundreds of stories out there - we need to collect them and put them together to form a bigger picture.


Maybe there is a documentary in it?

[Tychsen]

The BBC "Time Watch" documentary on the death of Hitler and the soviet treatment and interrogation of "Bunker" survivors was IMO much better - talk about changing stories the Soviets really did not hold back on playing hard ball over what happened Hitler.

[Franz repper]

U Boots in Glenhorgle reservoir always a possibility.......

Is that Polish guy still working Donlitz I think his name was

[Tychsen]

The BBC production , IMO a more balanced and factually based account of what took place.
(The embedding failed so the links will have to suffice).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SL9j8qH7T2A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEVu7atg ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GnzUsMS ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cC3KV2nV ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJdXNNjk ... re=related

And one showing Hitler's egotistical centre piece.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmZk8VhG ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XQykFv1 ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCxc2dJj ... re=related
Some good footage of Berlin dated 1936.

[PaulW]

I remember a few years ago reading the book "Gestapo Muller" which included an elaborate tale relating to Hitler being spirited out of the Bunker with a few days to go before the Russians arrived. I was quite tempted to believe it might have been possible - but then came Gestapo Muller 2, then 3 - and I thought 'someone's making money here'....

I read something once (don't remember where) that Otto Gunsche had said that in order to survive his 10 years of torture and almost daily mock executions to 'break him' whilst in Soviet captivity being interrogated to find out what happened in the Bunker he realised that his only hope was to keep telling the truth. If he deviated for any reason he felt he would not be able to keep a false story going and they might never release him if they thought he was hiding something - i.e bore his captors with the same (true) story over and over again. His story was that Hitler shot himself. As I understand it according to Russian culture of the time to blow your brains out was considered an honourable death and this was one of his captor's problems - they wanted someone to say he had chickened out and asked someone to do it for him.

I think perhaps there is some wishful thinking going on, that some people want to 'discover' that Hilter 'did a runner' rather than stuck it out to the bitter end. Either that, or 'Hitler sells'!

[Hoffman Grink]

Erm................. Hitler sells Paul - You above all should know that!!!

[Reich Crispies]

Who would move a body , who would want to cover up for Bormann so long after the war ?

Read "OP-JB". A very interesting book.
Fiction? Doubt will always creep in. Personally, I was sold on it.