Issued Items

[Gebirgsziege]

I am trying to pin down some information. After reviewing "German Mountain Troops" by Kltenegger, it appears that the wearing of y-straps or entrenching tools was just not done. Does anyone know if this is because they were not general issue to a Gebirgsjäger Soldier or just impractical to wear?

Come to think of it, does anyone have a list of clothing and/or equipment items/quantities issued to a newly inducted Gebirgsjäger Soldier? I would imagine that an original, completed Soldbuch would be a fantastic source for such info. Unfortunately, I don't have any access to one to validate my theory.

David

[unsam]

Look carefully positions on the forum.-))
viewtopic.php?f=42&t=9254&hilit=strap
old question.
order did not set, but were used.
This is confirmed by excavation.

[mario33]

My best advice would be to look up pages of GJ groups for a list of gear.

An absolut minimum - in my group to become 'recruit', you would need:
- Feldbluse M36 - uniform tunic, properly supplied with insignia (GJ waffenfarbe, adler, edelweiss patch)
- Berghose - uniform trousers, specially designed for mountain units
- Koppel mit koppelschloss - belt with closure
- Bergmutze - mountain cap; wool model with metal edelweiss (take good care to use proper wartime model with straight stem)
- Hemd - shirt
- Unterwasche - 2 sets of underwear
- M35 helm - early model of helmet
- Bergschuhe - mountain shoes
- Bergsocken/wickelgamaschen
- Koppeltraggestell - carrying straps
- Brotbeutel M31 - breadbag
- Mauser Kar. 98k - carbine
- Patronentasche für kar98k - ammo pouches for carbine ammo
- Kochgeschirr M31 - field mess tin
- 1 ltr Gebirgsjager Feldflasche mit Trinkbecher - special larger model of water bottle, possibly with special cup (its different to normal cups)
- Gasmaske M30/M38 mit Blechbüchse - tin pouch for gasmask with proper strapping
- Zeltbahn M31 mit riemen - tent quarter with two leather straps for carrying
- Seitengewehr 98K mit Seitengewehrtasche - bayonet with pouch
- Shanzzeug mit trager - field shovel with pouch
- Essbesteck - fork-spoon combo

and thats an absolute starter kit. then you would need specialised equipment (selection of):
- Grosse Gebirgsjager Rucksack - M31 mountain rucksack
- Gebirgsjager Spitzhacke - ice hammer
- Gebirgsjager Windjacke - special windproof jacket
- Gebirgsjager Windblouse - special parka, thin but reversible and water/wind proof
- Bergschlupfjacke - mountain sweater for cold nights
- Shnee Shutzbrille - protecting glasses against snowblindness
- Schneeschuh - dont rememeber the name in english - things to walk on loose snow
- Steigeisen - crampons
- Kompass - compass
- Kletterhammer - piton hammer (plus pitons)
- Skis - skis
- Seil - climbing rope
- Bergmutzebezüge - winter camouflage cover for a cap (white of off-white linen).

And here is when your imagination might take you further - including warmer/winter equip/uniforms; other models of uniforms (eg. later models); funtional equipment (squad leaders etc); other models of armament or personal items.

[Gebirgsziege]

mario33,

Thanks for the reply! I understand the basic list well enough already. I guess my question could have been worded a little more precise. I'm sure that some items of bekleidungs/ausrüstungsstücke, as listed in the Soldbuch, were not issued as well as some others were hand-written into the blanks. I would also bet that some bekleidungs/ausrüstungsstücke belonged to the unit supply, being issued on a temporary basis and turned back in quickly thereafter.

Back to one half of my original question, does anyone know the quantites in which clothing items were issued? How many hemden, socken, feldblüsen, etc.? This info will help me simultaneously plan basic purchases as well as build a barracks impression. I prefer to buy items in "as issued" quantities and from one retailer at a time.

Thanks again for the reply!

Tschüß,
David

[Sheikh Al Stranghi]

Depends entirely on the timeframe you want to portray, cannot give you a simple answer to that.\

If you tell us your intended unit and timeframe we can help you a lot better, as clothing issue changed all the time throughout the war.

Cheers

[Gebirgsziege]

For now, I am building for pre-war through early war (1938-1940). I can't help but fancy those darned double-decal helmets!

Tchüss,
David

[Sheikh Al Stranghi]

Ouch, you need about 5 tunics for that! I'll give you a detailed list tomorrow.

[Sheikh Al Stranghi]

"Hm 34 no 136 also defined the set of issue for NCO's and privates. They were issued with four tunics numbered and ink-stamped I to IV:

Tunic I. Field tunic stored for mobilization by the unit, without collar insignia or shoulder staps.

Tunic II. Parade or walking out tunic

Tunic III. Service tunic destined for use in ceremonial circumstances

Tunic IV. Service tunic destined for everyday service."

Source: Feldbluse, ISBN 978-2-35250-010-0

What I find very annoying is that they don't give you the origial text, and I can't remember the other original sources that talked about clothing issue besides the soldbuch... For example, is the ceremonial service tunic supposed to be a waffenrock? Or is that the walking out tunic? No way to tell from this text.

Of course later in the war this was changed to just two sets of clothing. And I can't remember the source for that either!

What this means is that once you were sent into the field, you only had one tunic and you would not have seen your other ones until you came back to your barracks. The constant changing into dress tunics at events is for most people therefore incorrect.

[Gebirgsziege]

Sheikh Al Stranghi,

Definitely some good information there! I guess I need to move Feldbluse higher up on my "to purchase list". Your point about the Waffenrock, and whether or not it is one of the 4 issued uniforms, is definitely an interesting one. It is a shame that Feldbluse does not cite the source. Does the bibliography give any good leads on where further answers might be found?

Tchüss,
David

[Sheikh Al Stranghi]

Oh, sources are cited. It's just not as easy as http://www.heeresdienstvorschrift.de, you need to wade through archives and antique book shops in order to find the proper original texts. Even if I know exactly what I am looking for, I may not be able to find it. To give you an example, I am still looking for the original 1944 dated WH sniper training manual. I even know the codes - I just can't find the book itself!!!!

Also, I am not sure yet how clothing issue was recorded by the unit. The soldbuch is only issued when the unit is mobilized, so it would only have feldbluse I recorded in it.

[Gebirgsziege]

Grüss euch,

Okay, I have been plugging away hard at my procurements since January. Below is a list of what I have acquired and the source itself. I have used information from here (mario33 and others), along with various books and references to guide my choices. As you can see, I still have the basic uniform and bergshuhe and about 6 or so other pieces of equipment to buy [Stahlhelm, zeltplane, Eispickel, Seil, Schneeschuhe, Klettershuhe]. I will likely get a chance to do so by year's end. I'm thinking hard about springing for ATF's Texled M36 and Berghose for the uniform. I had a chance to look them over at the Show of Shows last month and was left breathless. They are without a doubt the highest priced on the market, but you get every bit of your money's worth!

Bekleidungs
Item - Vendor
Bergmütze - GD43
Traditionsabzeichen - ebay
M36 Schulterklappen - GD43
2. Komp. Knöpfer - ebay
Kragenbinde (2 ea.) - At the Front
Kopfschützer - At the Front
Handschuhe - At the Front
Socken - Hessen Antique
Gebirgjägerarmelabzeichen - National Capital Historical Sales
Heeresbergführerabzeichen - Hessen Antique

Ausrüstungsstücke
Item - Vendor
Bekleidungssack - At the Front
Fettbüchse - ebay
Zeltpfosten - 1944 Militaria
Zelthering (2 ea.) - 1944 Militaria
Zeltleine - Landser Outfitters
Kopel - At the Front
Koppelschloß (pebbled finish, aluminium) - 1944 Militaria
Mantelriemen (3 ea.) - At the Front
M31 Brotbeutel mit Band - Hessen Antique
1 ltr. Feldlasche - ebay
2. Komp. Portepee - Hessen Antique
Patronentasche - At the Front
M31 Gebirgsrucksack - Show of Shows
Gebirgs Kleiner Rucksack - ebay
Kochgeschirr - At the Front
Kochgeschirr Riemen (2 ea.) - At the Front
Handtuch (2 ea.) - Ostfront
Eßbesteck - 1944 Militaria
Scnheebrille - International Military Antiques
Taschentuch (2 ea.) - ebay
Hosenträger - At the Front
Erkennungsmarke - Hessen Antique
Steigeisen - ebay
Eishammer - Army Surplus Warehouse
Mauerhaken (12 ea.) - Army Surplus Warehouse
Karabinern (4 ea.) - Army Surplus Warehouse
Seitengewher - At the Front
Seitengewhertasche - At the Front
Tragebüchse - At the Front
Spaten - At the Front
Spatentasche - At the Front
Gewehrputzzeug - International Military Antiques
Abstreifen - WepHaus
Gasplanebeutel - Show of Shows
Wolldecke - At the Front
Bettwäsche - Wephaus

Persönliche Effekte
Item - Vendor
Soldbuch - WepHaus
Esbittkocher - WepHaus
Taschenmeßer - Hessen Antique
Dosenöffner - ebay
Taschenlampe - ebay
Pfeifen (4 ea.) - ebay
Pfeifenreiniger - Ostfront
Vorhängeschloß - Ostfront
Zahnputzbecher - Ostfront
Seifenschale - Ostfront
Kernseife - Ostfront
Fotoalbum - Ostfront
Rasierzeug - Ostfront
Körperflegezeug - Ostfront
Nadeln - Ostfront
Fußpuder - Ostfront
Notizbuch - Ostfront
Photografie - Ostfront
Brieftasche - Ostfront

Berg Heil,
David