wwii axis reenactment forum

From Kev OS 4 message board:

http://www.hs.fi/english/article/New+bo ... 5240241387

Greetings Pirkka an intresting thread, i did read about this incident myself, what are your own views, did Finnish soldiers fire on other Finns or is it a myth. It was proved that the Finnish Army turned on the Germans stationed there in 45 after the Russian Army/Government gave them an ultimatum to get the German forces out of Finnland or they would invade. This they did peacefully at the beginning but then there were some cases of fighting taking place. The original thought (in the Finnish killing Finns case) was that some groups of Finnish soldiers continued to fight for the German cause and disagreed with the disarming policy of the Russians, in my opinion i think this was the case especially when you consider that there were many German Units/Regiments comprising Finnish Nationals, basically modern goverments do not like to think that their forefathers were involved in such a thing and in this case (see http link) try to erase history

Old thread, but I would like to clear up some misconceptions. I haven't personally read either book, so I won't comment on their validity. However, the executions had nothing to do with any 'German sympathy' whatsoever, but with desertion during the heavy fighting of summer 1944! It is a well documented fact that a notable number (at least compared to other democracies of the time and the very few executions in civilian society) of death sentences were enforced duringthat period. The point of controversy is the number of those executions. Also, there weren't many German units compromised of Finnish soldier, the only ones were in division Wiking, and they had already mostly returned by the time. Finns in German service after Continuation war were very rare.

Pies wrote:Old thread, but I would like to clear up some misconceptions. I haven't personally read either book, so I won't comment on their validity. However, the executions had nothing to do with any 'German sympathy' whatsoever, but with desertion during the heavy fighting of summer 1944! It is a well documented fact that a notable number (at least compared to other democracies of the time and the very few executions in civilian society) of death sentences were enforced duringthat period. The point of controversy is the number of those executions. Also, there weren't many German units compromised of Finnish soldier, the only ones were in division Wiking, and they had already mostly returned by the time. Finns in German service after Continuation war were very rare.

Olen samaa mieltä teidän ajatuksia tämä kuin jatkosota on kiinnostaa minua kovasti, miten Suomen armeija pystyi ottamaan ehkä Venäjän joukkojen ja kääntämään sodan hyökkääjille, myös valtavan määrän Saksan sotilaallinen apua varsinkin varusteiden ja työvoimaa, jotka lähetettiin Suomi auttaa heitä ja miten nyt päivän niin paljon laitteita edelleen, muutama vuosi sitten ostanut paljon laitteita Suomen kolmannen osapuolen avulla ja sen laatuun oli aivan hyvässä kunnossa.

Voisinko kysyä olivat siellä useita suomalaisia uhreja, kun he olivat vaihtaa puolin ja vastustaa Saksan joukot kotimarkkinoillaan alueella ja miten tavallinen suomalainen sotilas tuntuu siirtyminen liittoutumia puolelle niiden luonnollinen vihollinen Venäjä keneltä he olivat saaneet itsenäisyytensä vain 30 vuotta aikaisemmin?

I would agree with your thoughts on this one as the continuation war is of great interest to me, how the Finnish army were able to take on the might of the Russian forces and turn the tide of the war against the invaders, also the vast amount of German military help in terms of equipment and of manpower that were dispatched to Finland to assist them and how now days so much equipment remains, a few years ago I purchased a considerable amount of equipment from Finland through a third party and the quality of it was absolutely in mint condition.

Could I ask were there many Finnish casualties when they had to switch sides and oppose the German forces on their home territory and how did the ordinary Finnish soldier feel about switching alliances to side with their natural foe Russia from whom they had gained their independence only 30 years previously?

The casualties for the Finns figure at 774 dead, 2904 wounded and 262 missing, with major property damage for Northern Finland. As for Finnish feelings for fighting, as you said both sides wanted to get over with it peacefully. However, when this didn't work out due to Soviets, the Finnish soldiers did what they were ordered to, even with the past of comraderie and friendship. The German love for taking hostages and wanton destruction of Lapland were also employed in Finnish propaganda, pissing the Finns off.

Some of the German Veterans I have spoken to had a deep fear the the Finns would emply the Motti tactics on them

My grandfather fought with the Germans in Lappland from 1941 until 1944. When they were ordered to fight against the germans, they refused and soon after their company was discharged and sent home. They were replaced by fresh conscripts, who were eager to get their war experience.

EDIT: forgot one full sentence from the middle...

After the cease-fire agreement with the soviets the finns were forced to:
Demovilize or disband part of their troops
Push all the german forces out of their borders
Hand all the captured german prisoners in the action to the soviets
Return to the 1940 borders

It was a hard task indeed
As it is mentioned they finnish government had to use young reserves or cadets to drive out the germans
Fortunately the germans retreated in order almost with no fighting to Norway, but some units took hostages with them or even burnt villages and planted mines
The casualties in the actions were quite few (3000 each side, including MIA, WIA and KIA), only 1300 germans were captured and handed to the soviets

For more info
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapland_War

Quite interesting to note that Suomen historian pikkujättiläinen and Jatkosodan pikkujättiläinen give such differing casualty figures, considering that they are part of the same series. Also, even though Lapland War was primarily a young men's war (aren't they all ) some seasoned units did take part.