spotting fake swords

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Tanaka
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spotting fake swords

Post by Tanaka »

I thought i would put up a quick guide for spotting the numerous fake swords that are for sale now on places like ebay and even at shows like Beltring.

There are a few simple rules you can follow for spotting fake swords on ebay, just take a quick look at the price, type of auction and sword location.

If its $10 that should start alarm bells ringing, gone are the days when WW2 swords went for that sort of money, even bad ones are going for upwards of $300 now.

Is it a private auction, if it is look somewhere else, 99% are fake as the seller doesn't want people to contact the bidder to explain what a piece of crap it is.

Location, if its China take a good long look at it as thats where the fakes are coming from, again 99% are worthless repros.

WW2 Japanese swords did not come in a huge variety of different designs, which is why, once you've looked at a few real WW2 swords you can usually spot the fakes pretty quick.

We'll start with the NCO's swords, these are the cheapest way into collecting Japanese swords, but you still might be looking at up to £500 for a really nice one. Genuine NCO swords have a cast aluminium handle painted to resemble the lacing on officers shin gunto sowrds. Earlier models have a cast unpainted copper handle, but these are much rarer and command much more money. These swords will have serial numbers on their blades and are all machine made, without exception. The serial numbers are simple assembly or manufacturing numbers; they are not serial numbers of blades as issued to specific soldiers. If the sword is all original, the serial numbers on the blade, tsuba, saya and all other parts should match. Fakes are now coming out with cast brass handles and some even have signatures of the tangs.

Many other styles of swords are being passed off as antique Japanese swords. Many have poorly cast silver colored tachi or shingunto style mounts and some have strange lacquer designs, stampings or carvings on the tsuka and saya. Some even have fake signature. In a lot of cases the Kanji make no sense when read. Many have low grade "damascus type" blades that have been strongly acid etched to show a design. Genuine Japanese swords do not feature any acid etchings, whether its swirls on the blade or etched Kanji on the blade there all fake.
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Officers Shin gunto swords will have army mounts depending on what quality they are they will vary slightly but are still recognisable as shin gunto mounts. The handles should be silk wrapped over either ray or shark skin and there should be 3 cherry blossoms under the silk wrap either side.

The fake swords usually don't have these features, they usually feature badly wrapped or are wrapped in something other than silk in varying colours over a plain wood handle and don't usually have the cherry blossoms which are the sign of the army in Japan. such as the fake swords below:-

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Its impossible to list all the various styles of fake sword appearing now and the fakes are getting harder to spot but you just have to beware what you buy, and if your not sure, just LEAVE IT.

If you ever see a sword you fancy buying but are not sure if its real please post it on here and we'll be sure to help you out or if you have a sword already and would like to share it with the forum please post some pictures up.
Shergar
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very interesting reading

Post by Shergar »

very interesting reading , the sword i saw in john the collectors house was an officers genuine sword as your description matches up shergar
dieter
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Post by dieter »

a question that i have always wanted to ask.

did they actually use these in combat or were they just a ceromonial(sp?) thing?
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Tanaka
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Post by Tanaka »

Officers and NCO's used these in combat as there primary weapon alongside there pistols. There are a few photographs of Japanese officers charging straight towards enemy lines and Machine Guns with there swords raised.
As far as im aware they were the last major army to use swords in a front line combat role.
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Post by dieter »

cheers mate

must admit they did have some bottle, the old nips.

my grandad bought back a officers sword from burma. says he took it of a dead major. me and my dad have always wounderd what it is worth. any ideas? it is bloody goog nick.
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Tanaka
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Post by Tanaka »

i would need to see some photos of it before i could tell you anything mate, if you can get me them i should be able to tell you about it.
Jon Das Reich

Post by Jon Das Reich »

There was a Jap sword on the antique roadshow the other week, just caught abit of it the expert was saying something along the lines of markings on the metal on the grip under the handle can tell you who made it and when you send of a rubbing of the marking to some place cant remember and they will tell you who and when it was made and this rates how much the sword is worth etc.
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Tanaka
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Post by Tanaka »

yes under the handle there may be a signature from the swordsmith who made it, problem is even war time blades can have signatures so its not the be all and end all of sword collecting, event though mine is a proper blade and is over 500 years old, it doesn't have a signature because its got a cut down tang.

If you do remove then handle, BE BLOODY CAREFUL, its all to easy to break something if your not totally sure of what to do.

if it does have a signature take a photo and i can get it translated for you.
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Post by dieter »

hi mate

its in france at my dads house, will try and get him to take some piccies. so i can post them up. i havnt seen it for years. it dose have markings, but i'm buggerd if i can remember them.

were swords mass produced or were they a private purchase iteam? i'm assuming the like most army's officers used private purchase while NCO's use issues. is that correct?
ein volk, ein reich, ein ME????

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Tanaka
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Post by Tanaka »

yeah if you can get some photos of basicly everything on the sword, blade, mounts, handle, scabbard, tang, the lot, i can help you out.

Officers would either use a family blade, so one that has been with there family for generations and passed down, and have it put into military mounts and use that, or they would have a sword issued to them by the military, either because they didn't have a family blade, or they didn't want to use it.

NCO's would have been issued an NCO sword which had a mass produced blade and a cast metal handle.

If they had the money officers would upgrade there swords, by buying better quality mounts for it etc....
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jdeleur
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Post by jdeleur »

Nice info Ryan 8)
I'm not to familiar with swords because they are way out of budget.
Looking for T30 bayonet info.
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Tanaka
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Post by Tanaka »

NCO swords aren't too badly priced mate :D
JRA site http://www.japanesereenacting.co.uk/

New Japanese reenactors forum

http://s13.invisionfree.com/IJA_Reenacting/

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jdeleur
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Post by jdeleur »

No... :D

I don't it arsenal made...
Looking for T30 bayonet info.
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