Re: Handschar Division
Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:48 pm
Thanks Les
Regards Pipes
Regards Pipes
forum for axis reenactors, living history, wehrmacht ss reenacting
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No Les, it really cant be said because it isnt true.les hearn wrote:so it can be said that the whole German army had some sort of "mutiny" inside.
Stigroadie wrote:No Les, it really cant be said because it isnt true.les hearn wrote:so it can be said that the whole German army had some sort of "mutiny" inside.
This division was setting a trend, doing it before and in more depth than all the others? The later collapse was just following their example?
Stigroadie wrote:No Les, it really cant be said because it isnt true.les hearn wrote:so it can be said that the whole German army had some sort of "mutiny" inside.
This division was setting a trend, doing it before and in more depth than all the others? The later collapse was just following their example?
42gunner wrote:Maybe Ive spent too much time on the axis history forum. Not enough to learn what a sidearm is?
Can any of you people back up your claims with actual proof? Can you though? Is what is posted proof only if you agree with it and everything you dont agree with is anti-Handscar propaganda?
What desertion trend was Handschar starting? They were not, that was a devise used to show how ridiculous another statement was. We use ridicule and satire and sometimes irony to get people to look at other sides of a coin.
When entire countries were switching sides and became allied with the western powers in that time period.
As I said before, they werent desertions, it was a refusal to move out of Bosnia. When you are in an army you do not get to chose where or who you fight. This refusal alone is enough to make the division useless to the high commandOfficers were court martialed and executed over this. The orders were given to move to Croatia, and no one obeyed them. Well that is mutiny, there were very well supported [by evidence]desertions, those that occurred when they faced the Soviets?
The DIVISION DID NOT have a mutiny. It was a single company of the Pioniere battalion. But which division were they a part of? It is common to say there was a mutiny in Division X if one part of Division X mutinied
I dont know why people have this idea that every battalion got together and killed some of it's officers. Where is this idea to be found? I dont see it here in this thread?I assure it was the smallest scale desertion that would occur. Most important of all, whats never mentioned is that it was the Bosnians that rose up and eliminated the mutineers. That goes against the reports I saw which says the germans suppressed the mutiny
Even Himmler had a better understanding of the situation than most of you. You think history puts weight and value on the statements of Himmler? You need to find a better and more reputable source than a mad man such as he.
“I knew there was a chance that a few traitors might be smuggled into the division, but I haven’t the slightest doubt concerning the loyalty of the Bosnians. These troops were loyal to their supreme commander twenty years ago, so why shouldn’t they be so today?”
I'm pretty much done with this thread, it is clear to me that you have one very fixed and because of your connection to the division, biased view. Anything that shows handschar in bad light you see as anti propaganda. You must also see that what we get coming from you is lots of pro propaganda? My view of history comes from looking at both sides of each story, as best I can, and considering the evidence. We are not obliged to take your version on faith and dispense with unbiased well written histories.
Sauberzweig, the most known commander of the division went on to lead another formation somewhere else, where opened up his sector to the Americans and turned his men over to them.
Fair play, not the end of the world, everybody has their own view !!Stigroadie wrote:
I'm pretty much done with this thread, it is clear to me that you have one very fixed and because of your connection to the division, biased view. Anything that shows handschar in bad light you see as anti propaganda. You must also see that what we get coming from you is lots of pro propaganda? My view of history comes from looking at both sides of each story, as best I can, and considering the evidence. We are not obliged to take your version on faith and dispense with unbiased well written histories.
Yes they Did Tom Bosnian Muslims converted to Islam in gratitude of the Turkish Ottoman Empire who had show tolerance to their earlier Bogomil faith the Tombs can still be seen todayHans Gowert wrote:Question : did the men of handchar respected ramadham ?
please get the 'fanatic' word out of your head as following a religion does not make you a fanatic. Christians and other faiths who believe in a god or pray to god in desperate situations or simply saying a pray before going to bed , is the same sence as a muslim praying to mecca ,I am trying to gather an understanding to how 'muslim' hitlers muslims were .
42gunner wrote:Do some research and stop reading from serbianna.com and other propaganda sites....that's as politely as I can say it.
Or read this thread.
http://panzergrenadier.net/forum/viewto ... 25&t=13540
I need your source on the murders and retreats in the face of the enemy.
Single battalions of Handschar stood in face of entire partisan divisions during the summer of 1944, inflicting heavy casualties while suffering a few wounded. During it's first 2-3 weeks of existance, 80 Iron Crosses were awarded.
By May of 1944, a huge proportion of Regt. 28 rated to wear the Anti Partisan Badge alone.
No link to the Arab insurgents and Jihad can be drawn from Handschar period.
Do some research.
Alija Izetbegovic ? name ring any bells ???No link to the Arab insurgents and Jihad can be drawn from Handschar period.