Can cliques be damaging to the continuation of the forum ?

Moderator: johankreig

Peiper

Re: Can cliques be damaging to the continuation of the forum

Post by Peiper »

Stigroadie wrote:I see, asking questions and searching for answers is splitting hairs?
You can't accuse the forum of entertaining an elite, a clique and not elaborate on who these shadowy figures might be and what joins them together to form this clique.
I don't think it exists at all. I have made some enquiries with current and ex members, some are quite well known, they run groups, organise events, write books. None of them seem to know about it, not one had ever been invited to a meeting of this clique. More importantly, for my ego at least, neither had I.
Could it be that this imagined clique was no such thing? Could it be that many members of the forum all thought the same about one topic and voiced that? That it acted as a gestalt, that the one opinion was shared because it was true? The best answer available? I don't know, I didn't witness the cabal in action.
I do think there are people on the forum who know more than you about WW2 Germany, its troops and their uniforms. I know there are people who know much more about it than I do. Is it possible that you may have interpreted that as a slight? You saw a clique where there was just a shared opinion?
I don't know, I can't say but I can say I don't see any 'click' at work.
Hi Stig how are you
I was using the word clique as this is what the subject is called,
there is no "official" body i suppose it is people who know each other
who seem to band up on posts made by newbies, you see when i joined
this forum (5yrs ago) i had first started using the internet, my knowledge
was limited because of sources i had to hand, i had no specialist ref books
only War ref books on general theme so of course peoples knowledge on here
at the time i joined was greater than my own, now 5yrs later i have started to
specialize on the subject, what im saying is rather than band up to ridicule newbies
we should try and instruct and help them learn the subject, something that wasn't
available to me, anyway everybody have a good day.
Regards Peiper
Stigroadie

Re: Can cliques be damaging to the continuation of the forum

Post by Stigroadie »

Peiper wrote:I was using the word clique as this is what the subject is called
Regards Peiper
Thats not actually the truth of the matter is it?
You introduced the term when it was a whole with the 'See Ya' thread? Only after you had posted about this 'inner click' as you called it was the thread split and the current title put in place. Your post was around 20.00 on the 8th, the thread wasnt split and retitled until 16.30 on the 9th.
Peiper

Re: Can cliques be damaging to the continuation of the forum

Post by Peiper »

Stigroadie wrote:
Peiper wrote:I was using the word clique as this is what the subject is called
Regards Peiper
Thats not actually the truth of the matter is it?
You introduced the term when it was a whole with the 'See Ya' thread? Only after you had posted about this 'inner click' as you called it was the thread split and the current title put in place. Your post was around 20.00 on the 8th, the thread wasnt split and retitled until 16.30 on the 9th.
I mentioned the "clique" term after Geoff para mentioned
the "select inner circle" phrase, where are you going with
this Stig :?:
Stigroadie

Re: Can cliques be damaging to the continuation of the forum

Post by Stigroadie »

Peiper wrote:
Peiper wrote:I was using the word clique as this is what the subject is called
Regards Peiper
I mentioned the "clique" term after Geoff para mentioned
the "select inner circle" phrase,
I'm going towards the truth. Thats all.
It cant be both these answers can it?
The first is very clearly not the truth, for all the reasons I posted and the fact you seem to have changed your mind. So why did you tell us that was the reason?
pepperpot
Posts: 916
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2010 8:20 am
Location: surrey

Re: Can cliques be damaging to the continuation of the forum

Post by pepperpot »

the subject is "Can cliques be damaging to the continuation of the forum ?"
the answer is yes and already has done so, very badly, i am aware that a number of "members" have left with out notification and if the sqablling doesnt end quick, this forum will disappear.
graham
Peiper

Re: Can cliques be damaging to the continuation of the forum

Post by Peiper »

Stigroadie wrote:
Peiper wrote:
Peiper wrote:I was using the word clique as this is what the subject is called
Regards Peiper
I mentioned the "clique" term after Geoff para mentioned
the "select inner circle" phrase,
I'm going towards the truth. Thats all.
It cant be both these answers can it?
The first is very clearly not the truth, for all the reasons I posted and the fact you seem to have changed your mind. So why did you tell us that was the reason?

:?: sorry you've lost me mate
Pushing all that aside the point im trying to make is the grudges and
arguments should stop tbh as it is damaging the hobby and the forum
imho
Regards Peiper
pepperpot
Posts: 916
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2010 8:20 am
Location: surrey

Re: Can cliques be damaging to the continuation of the forum

Post by pepperpot »

"sorry you've lost me mate
Pushing all that aside the point im trying to make is the grudges and
arguments should stop tbh as it is damaging the hobby and the forum
imho
Regards Peiper"
i agree with you only i think the damage may be beyond repair. Problems with forums and email is that they dont convey the 'personality' of the spoken word and can be completly misunderstood by the 'writings' thats why i dont do facebook etc.!!!!!
graham
berlin1945
Posts: 1313
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2010 6:44 pm

Re: Can cliques be damaging to the continuation of the forum

Post by berlin1945 »

pepperpot wrote:"sorry you've lost me mate
Pushing all that aside the point im trying to make is the grudges and
arguments should stop tbh as it is damaging the hobby and the forum
imho
Regards Peiper"
i agree with you only i think the damage may be beyond repair. Problems with forums and email is that they dont convey the 'personality' of the spoken word and can be completly misunderstood by the 'writings' thats why i dont do facebook etc.!!!!!
graham
well said graham wise words
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Stigroadie

Re: Can cliques be damaging to the continuation of the forum

Post by Stigroadie »

Peiper wrote:Pushing all that aside
Unbelievable.
There is no hope.
Peiper

Re: Can cliques be damaging to the continuation of the forum

Post by Peiper »

Stigroadie wrote:
Peiper wrote:Pushing all that aside
Unbelievable.
There is no hope.
I dont understand Stig, i dont see what point your trying to make ??

Also i dont think you've read or understand my posts correctly,
what is so hard to comprehend, all im saying is the arguments egos,
cliques whatever you want to call them should stop because it is ruining
the forum and eventually will ruin the hobby because it will cause a divide
eventually imho, whether people agree or not that is my opinion, id rather
everyone got on and not argue about petty crap that in the great scheme
of things doesnt matter anyway.

Best regards everybody, regards Peiper
pepperpot
Posts: 916
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2010 8:20 am
Location: surrey

Re: Can cliques be damaging to the continuation of the forum

Post by pepperpot »

again i agree with you peiper.
If i may make a suggestion that you both contact each other by PHONE and resolve your differences.
Its a lot easier to talk that write!!!!
graham
Stigroadie

Re: Can cliques be damaging to the continuation of the forum

Post by Stigroadie »

It is very simple. Here is a question.
Are there cliques at work on the forum?
People are acting like there are yet cannot provide anything that points to them existing.
They seem to me to be a figment of some peoples imagination. See more on that in previous posts.
There are people who have strong opinions, some are more subtle than others at putting them over. I'm not one of those, I'm quite blunt, I think we are all adults and should behave like grown ups. If I think you are wrong I'll tell you. I'll try to tell you why I think you are wrong. Just being a naysayer is good for no-one.
What is unbelievable is that the pertinent point should be 'pushed aside' to be replaced by some weak plea for a hippy ideal that we should all get on and co-exist in some soft fluffy wonderland.
That will never happen if people cant read a few lines of text and make some solid conclusions, assess those and respond to the questions with well reasoned and logical replies.
If you post irrelevant dross then you will come into conflict.
If you post dubious 'facts' from dubious research you will come into conflict.
If you want the conflict to go away then stop posting dubious stuff and dross. Research your kit before posting photos. Dont say 'I guess', dont be vague yet insist its right, be certain or be clear you are unsure. It is OK not to know, it's ok to be wrong, just be honest about it.
Those with the opinions will post, they have a vested interest in seeing the best possible turn outs, the best efforts on tracing the facts.
So the thread continues in the assumption that these cliques are real and might be damaging to the forum.
Unfortunately they has not been a jot of evidence to show they even exist, never mind that they are damaging. Again, whilst this poor level of logic and reason continues there will be arguments and conflict. It must happen, there will be two opinions in opposition.
If you dont understand why any of this matters then you wont get why people set themselves standards and why they want to post when they see the standards compromised.
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Pug42
Posts: 1051
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Location: South Coast

Re: Can cliques be damaging to the continuation of the forum

Post by Pug42 »

Sean, I'd love to know how you ended up as a roadie rather than as a Professor of Philosophy specialising in logic and reasoned arguments...? I might not always agree with your point of view but at least I understand your position clearly!

When a number of people appear to act in concert (even if that is coincidence) it can give rise to the suspicion of 'cliques', especially if friendship is known to exist between any of the parties.

I am sad that the latest spat has seen the departure of people like Reich Crispies, Les and Franz Repper - it is noticeable that the forum has been quieter and more subdued of late.
David

Stimme aus dem sumpf...

STURMPANZER ABTEILUNG
Stigroadie

Re: Can cliques be damaging to the continuation of the forum

Post by Stigroadie »

Pug42 wrote:I might not always agree with your point of view but at least I understand your position clearly!
Who could want more?
geoffpara

Re: Can cliques be damaging to the continuation of the forum

Post by geoffpara »

From thinking back to previous posts or threads, bearing in mind I don't trawl through them all, it occurred to me that the majority of individuals who have attracted comments, particularly negative feedback on their new impression, have tended to be those that aren't part of a group with experienced members and an authenticity officer to advise them. So in practice are they using the forum, with its very wide and diverse range of individuals, as an authenticity officer? I am reminded of the example on the other forum of the individual who seemed desperate to find someone to confirm that it was ok for him to include a 'captured' weapon as part of his impression and was just looking for confirmation of what he believed and gave no weight to any of the arguments being put forward by more experienced reenactors in that specific area.

For those that do continue to provide feedback then after a while I can understand it might seem to be a battle they are fighting, and uphill at that particularly when it can seem to so repetitive. I can understand the frustration of those who have offered sound advice and find themselves acting as authenticity officers for individuals in an attempt to maintain standards within reenactment. Perhaps a thankless task as they don't have the power of sanctions that a group's authenticity officer has at his/her disposal. All they can rely on is their power of persuasion and the willingness of the individual to listen to and hear what is being said. Contrary to what we might say ourselves very few people can actually take negative feedback without getting defensive or feeling hurt.

If individual impressions are not linked to being part of a group does this then relate to the discussion elsewhere on at least two different forums regarding promenaders vs reenactment? Can you be a promenader and a reenactor? Obviously you can but poor promenaders can have a damaging impact, either from poor standards or behaviour, on how reenactment is perceived by others. Look at the concerns or rather comments being expressed on some of the individuals who are not members of the forum, quite often unknown to forum members, and who have had copied into a thread their picture and the ridicule that is then poured over them and their impression. Ask yourself what might be being said about your alternative impression on a forum you haven't yet found where someone has posted your picture. In light of that perhaps some of the blunt criticisms from other forum members aren't so bad after all when taken in comparison? Personally, rather than offering myself up to comments and observations on an alternative/promenading impression I would be inclined to initially contact some trusted friends for their feedback before opening myself up to a wider and often more critical, but always objective feedback. Otherwise you accept the risk of unwanted consequences in the form of some sharp criticisms.
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