Weapons "out of place"

[reddevil1311]

My great uncle was an LT in the Recconaissance, 59th Staffs. He "exchanged" his sten for an MP40 and used that well into Germany.

Great thread!

Ashley

[Schuller]

Volkssturm recruits, looks like steyr mannlicher m95




Another mannlicher or a WWI mauser?

[LuftwaffeFD]

I believe alot of captured SMLE's from Dunkirk were reissued through the Volkssturm.

Danny

[BERG]

Look at this one, one of Mussolini's bodyguards -armed with a ppsh! Winter 1944/45.

[Schuller]

I guess Italian partisans could have received small ammounts of PPSH's, perhaps those weapons were supplied by yugoslavian partisans who had received them from the soviets by airdrop
Or even brought by German soldiers who fought partisans in the Balkans
And the last theory: from kossack units deployed in Italy by that time

[BERG]

Sten guns in Italian use, probably aquired from allied misdrops;

[gurowski]

Or even brought by German soldiers who fought partisans in the Balkans

I think you might find this is the probable answer. The PPSH41 was an issue weapon for the German forces after op Barbarossa. The capture of large stocks of them provided enough of them to make them the second most common SMG in the German army after the MP40. And after they ran out of 7.62 tokarev ammo they converted them to 9mm and fired MP40 mags via an adapter.

[Schuller]

I think you might find this is the probable answer. The PPSH41 was an issue weapon for the German forces after op Barbarossa. The capture of large stocks of them provided enough of them to make them the second most common SMG in the German army after the MP40. And after they ran out of 7.62 tokarev ammo they converted them to 9mm and fired MP40 mags via an adapter.

It certainly makes more sense that way, although much more common for the eastern front
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This one is from Italy too, a Bren used by a fallschirmjäger

[pepperpot]

The germans did copy the sten, called the mp3008 with the mag at the bottom as per mp40, however it had the same realibility as the sten and i was told ended up being issued to the volkst. and the feldgendarmerie in Berlin, not sure how accurate the FD info is. i have a b.f. mp3008. there also was another problem that the mp3008 was designed to take sten mags and not the mp40 mags. again cant see the logic in that however it was war time!!!
graham

[gurowski]

there also was another problem that the mp3008 was designed to take sten mags and not the mp40 mags. again cant see the logic in that however it was war time!!!
graham

No, it was the other way round Graham, they were designed to use MP40 mags.

[Schuller]

The magazines were not compatible? I thought they were since both mp40 and sten use the same ammo

[barnaclebill]

Same ammo, different mags.

[Schuller]

I see, it's like pps43 and ppsh41

[der Blutiger Eimer]

regarding comments about converting Ppsh's to German 9mm after the soviet ammo ran out,
how practical would that have been to do in the field (well, at least by the most forward armorer available)?
i'm not terribly familiar with what it would take, the precise differences in cartridges, nor am i a gunshith, but while i know it was done, it seems more trouble than it would be worth.

[Hoffman Grink]

regarding comments about converting Ppsh's to German 9mm after the soviet ammo ran out,
how practical would that have been to do in the field (well, at least by the most forward armorer available)?
i'm not terribly familiar with what it would take, the precise differences in cartridges, nor am i a gunshith, but while i know it was done, it seems more trouble than it would be worth.

Reshouldering the chamber with a reaming tool and a small folded metal addition inside the magazines....... then a rebarrel. Not frontline work but doable.
What you all tend to do is think in your own terms - In an army, weapons aren't just allowed to "float about" - We know they do - even today "in theatre", buckshee guns are passed around units - but get caught and you are in deep shit. Don't think Hollywood.... Think about a disciplined army where rules are important and keep people alive.

Captured weapons - in the true sense of the word are weapons gathered up on a battlefield, returned to depots, sorted, examined and then returned to service. This means they go "on the books" and are part of the TOE for want of a better term.