General Assault Badge or Infantry Assault Badge?

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Peiper

Re: General Assault Badge or Infantry Assault Badge?

Post by Peiper »

Panzer Wittman wrote:With ref to your ga badge bronze, any chance you could kick off a new thread with your pics of it when you have them?
I would be with Herr Grink in the oppinion that it almost certainly has to be post-war. Either from scratch or a redipped silver. A bronze ga badge wasn't even a projected design at the war's end, and certainly not in production. As Herr Grink has stated also - no period photos and not even a record of an award on paper.
Would still love to see it and if you can point us in the direction of awards books which site it as possible real that'd be an intereting read too. A prototype ... Possible
This item will be posted shortly, unfortunately have been working away and haven't had
access to my gear/ref books yet :(
Cheers Pipes

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LAH650
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Re: General Assault Badge or Infantry Assault Badge?

Post by LAH650 »

I'm sure I had one back in the 80's..... may have some old photos of my collection....mmmmmm

meanwhile..... :?

http://germanmilitariacollectibles.com/ ... -look.html

Hoffman Grink

Re: General Assault Badge or Infantry Assault Badge?

Post by Hoffman Grink »

Amusing article Andy :wink:

Author sets off decrying "self proclaimed experts" who "Proclaim empirical truths" then quickly says he knows of five examples which are absolutely wartime (no evidence, support or provenance given.... hmmmmmm empirical truth maybe?)

The article then turns slowly on to his collection and LO! he just happens to have FIVE of the little beauties in it....... Well paint me blue and feed me bananas!

The problem with the internet is that just because it's written there - doesn't make it true. The author is like all of us, entitled to his opinion and he states it loudly. But he doesn't produce evidence to support it. Whereas - those who believe them to be either unfinished silver ones, some anomalous production batch, post war fakes made from wartime dies, unissued prototypes have more comfort int he fact supporting evidence has not yet been found. (Note I didn't say "doesn't exist")

My reasoning for my opinion that they were not an issued item and did not exist as a 3R item is simply that all other awards carried a certificate and or a case and supporting paperwork and were recorded in Soldbucher. Even if this were not the case as in certain awards not being entered into a book for some reason or a case not being made for a particular award - some or a combination of supporting evidence can be found. The ubiquitous photo - All sorts of weird and wonderful gongs and trinkets turn up on German Soldier's uniforms - But never up to now, a Bronze General Assault.......... What they actually are I can't say for sure - but what they are not - based on the LACK of supporting evidence is an issued wartime award........

We could soon dispel their rarity - wherever the Morigis of our world get their Bronze InfanterieSturmAbzeichen made - get the factory to turn out some GA's in the same metal....... and presto - another re-enactorism would be born. :lol:

Peiper

Re: General Assault Badge or Infantry Assault Badge?

Post by Peiper »

Here's some pics of mine for what its worth lol :mrgreen:

The badge is mentioned in "Combat medals of the Third Reich" by Christopher Ailsby on page
171, apparantly there is one in the authors collection which was taken from a German POW at
the end of WW2, also according to Ailsby he has encountered others with different maker
marks so this would not be put down as an experimental model, "redipping" or Post War
restrikes ??.

According to the author as well the badge was issued on 22nd June 1943 and was awarded
to signify the destruction of Armoured vehicle using a hand held weapon such as Panzerfaust,
this according to the author explains the four numbered assault badges in bronze ranging
from 25, 50, 75, 100 which denote armoured vehicles (not tanks) destroyed!!
Gen assault badge in bronze front.jpg
Gen assault badge in bronze front.jpg (37.22 KiB) Viewed 5540 times
Gen assault badge in bronze reverse.jpg
Gen assault badge in bronze reverse.jpg (32.08 KiB) Viewed 5540 times
Cheers Pipes :wink:

Hoffman Grink

Re: General Assault Badge or Infantry Assault Badge?

Post by Hoffman Grink »

The criteria for destroying vehicles you describe would be for the Tank Destruction Strip and any Infantry in direct combat would get the Infantry Assault Badge.

Can you get clearer pics of your award please? Because the ones you supplied definitely seem to have sliver showing through on the wear - It is unlike any other Third Reich Bronze Award I have ever seen. Where they would have darker patches yours seems to go lighter - and perhaps due to lighting yours seems more copper coloured than Bronze.......... Does it have a maker mark? And I am curious about the semi circular marks on the reverse - the pin looks different too......

Peiper

Re: General Assault Badge or Infantry Assault Badge?

Post by Peiper »

Hi Hoff, iam just quoting from the ref book i have??, there are maker marks which are if you
look close the "A" for Assmann and lower down a number 3, sorry about the quality of the
pics but these were taken on a mobile phone, as for the circular marks on the reverse these i
believe are some kind of "die stamping marks"?.

As for the "silver" showing through this unless you have the badge in your hand would see it
is the "natural zinc" underneath grinning through this shows the badge has been worn and the
zinc has some patina to it which shows some age, basically this is not a badge which has
been sprayed then "knocked about" lol

Cheers Pipes :wink:

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Re: General Assault Badge or Infantry Assault Badge?

Post by Franz repper »

Herr Peiper I think you may have a fake , a very early one or one that has been aged very well
ImageImageImageImageImage

Hoffman Grink

Re: General Assault Badge or Infantry Assault Badge?

Post by Hoffman Grink »

Franz repper wrote:Herr Peiper I think you may have a fake , a very early one or one that has been aged very well
That was tactful............ :roll:

Peiper

Re: General Assault Badge or Infantry Assault Badge?

Post by Peiper »

Franz repper wrote:Herr Peiper I think you may have a fake , a very early one or one that has been aged very well
Thanks for your feedback Franz, if it is a fake it must be an early one as you say as it has been in my collection since 1982 lol :lol:

Cheers Pipes :wink:

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Re: General Assault Badge or Infantry Assault Badge?

Post by Franz repper »

Hoffman Grink wrote:
Franz repper wrote:Herr Peiper I think you may have a fake , a very early one or one that has been aged very well
That was tactful............ :roll:
you know me Herr Fwbl I am know for how tactful I am :mrgreen:
Peiper wrote:
Franz repper wrote:Herr Peiper I think you may have a fake , a very early one or one that has been aged very well
Thanks for your feedback Franz, if it is a fake it must be an early one as you say as it has been in my collection since 1982 lol :lol:

Cheers Pipes :wink:
Sorry Herr Peiper , sadly fakes started coming out in 1945 !
ImageImageImageImageImage

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Brigardefuhrer
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Re: General Assault Badge or Infantry Assault Badge?

Post by Brigardefuhrer »

Franz is right that fakes did start in 1945,daggers especially.Rudolf Souval made copys with original dies/moulds right up until the eighties I believe,when the bussiness was sold.His post war badges had a distinctive clip on the reverse which was not used in WW2(these are now collectors items in their own right.)
Those flat disc marks on Pipers badge are I think injection moulding marks,did they use such a process in WW2?.
I have been collecting since 1971,but I'm not an expert by any means,if you posted this on the WAF forum you would get a more informed opinion.
There is a 42 page thread on there about Chris Ailsby and Angolia do'es not fare any better,alledging that their books feature fakes/false information.New information is becomming available all the time from a new genaration of collectors.
As Paul said there is no photo evidence/documents available and the examples shown in the link IMO look very 'iffy' as regards construction quality and detail.
I used to work for the late Dougie Preece (so I know bit about fakes :lol: )when he took me to the Belgien fairs it really opened my eyes to the amount fakes comming out of eastern europe and put me off collecting for a while.

John
"I require able bodied men,with good horse and gun.
I wish none but those who desire to be actively engaged".
"Come on boys,if you want a heap of fun and to kill some yankees".
Nathan Bedford Forest.

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MP44
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Re: General Assault Badge or Infantry Assault Badge?

Post by MP44 »

Souval and Assman have been faked to oblivion. A maker mark is no guarantee of the award being orginal pre '45 manufacture.

As for that blokes bronze Gen Assault Badges. One word, Falschung!!!

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RodShack
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Re: General Assault Badge or Infantry Assault Badge?

Post by RodShack »

Gents

I think I have answered my question - or at least got some photographic evidence ref PzrJgr and what badge should be worn. By the look of this pic (courtesy of the CGA Forum) it seems it should be the GAB (see attached wartime photo):

Cheers

Rod
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PzJgr with GAB.jpg
PzJgr with GAB.jpg (163.22 KiB) Viewed 5436 times
Rod Shack

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