Helferinen Uniforms

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DAS MEDIC
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Re: Helferinen Uniforms

Post by DAS MEDIC »

crossofiron wrote:Keith has all sorts of tasty womens kit tucked away :D
:lol: :lol: :lol: and only wears on request :lol: :lol: :lol:
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crossofiron
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Re: Helferinen Uniforms

Post by crossofiron »

nah they all fit me :D just cant get him to part with anything!
KDF
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Re: Helferinen Uniforms

Post by KDF »

Ummmmm.

Well funny you should mention that has I`m thinking of selling said womens uniform.

Photos put on THIS forum by PD. Clever lad this bloke. :) Thankyou mate.

http://www.afra.org.uk/Photoalbum_conte ... ?Albumid=3
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crossofiron
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Re: Helferinen Uniforms

Post by crossofiron »

KDF wrote:Ummmmm.

Well funny you should mention that has I`m thinking of selling said womens uniform.

Photos put on THIS forum by PD. Clever lad this bloke. :) Thankyou mate.

http://www.afra.org.uk/Photoalbum_conte ... ?Albumid=3
so you going to ring me then?? or is that just thinking of, thinking of? :D
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dink
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Re: Helferinen Uniforms

Post by dink »

Pictures of the uniform available from Militaria-net (member on here G girl ;) feel free to use the piccies Anthony if they're of any use.

Points about the uniform, sizing is on the small size (I found I had to get a slightly bigger tunic than dress size), I shall be replacing the zip with a metal one when I get chance and possibly taking it up a smidge (but then i've got long legs) Other than that its as the pictures.

Hat made from a panzer one Anthony had already started to massacre, and I've finished and made it fit my head.

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Erwin
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Re: Helferinen Uniforms

Post by Erwin »

Saw them at Watham and got to say, don't look bad. Bit worried about the colour though. From what I've seen of SS-Helferin uniforms they are more grey-grey as opposed to field grey. What do people think?
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dink
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Re: Helferinen Uniforms

Post by dink »

SS Helferin are well documented as wearing Feldgrau, not grau ;) you can determine the colour worn from pictures of women wearing them (yes even in black and white and I can demonstrate this should anyone be interested), as well as observing original items (I've seen two original tunics) and noting the colour they were of which both albeit it considerably faded as they'd been tucked away, were definately a shade of green and not grey, thus the assumption is feldgrau.

I assume you mean Heer helferin, who did wear grey
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Erwin
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Re: Helferinen Uniforms

Post by Erwin »

No SS. The reasons I'm asking is, leaving the Osprey book aside, I've only seen one other colour picture of an SS-Helferin uniform and that was NOT a photo but a colour plate in a book printed in the 70's or 80's (so definately not gospel) and that was grey. Plus the SBG ladies are in grey. Or, was it like the men's uniform where there does not seem to be a fixed shaded but a wide variety?
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dink
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Re: Helferinen Uniforms

Post by dink »

Guarunteed there will have been a huge variety, most of the female kit was the crud of fabric initially desiganated for the chaps but deemed not fit for front line soldiers, but too good to waste so was allocated to the making of female uniforms at the inception of the Wehrmacht helferinnen. Add to that wool content changed, several factories making uniforms, dye varients in each factory and dependant on what was availably etc etc

Have no idea on the plate piccie you mention, what book was it in ?, I base what I know on the two I've seen and how different shades (colours) absorb light when photos are taken in black and white.

I believe the SBG girls have a veteran that has said their uniform is correct, but there are other veterans that state the field grey is correct ;) swings and roundabouts really, I go with the research of other more learned people in SS Helferinnen, and what I can judge for myself from photos/originals as I've not had contact with a vet.
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Re: Helferinen Uniforms

Post by Hoffman Grink »

The perrenial question of grau v. feldgrau with regard to helferinnen uniforms is one that comes up regularly.
For three years a wonderful lady who was wheelchair bound came to GCR. She was delighted when I greeted her in German and replied in a Bayern accent. Her family had NEVER heard her speak German before and were stunned.... (they knew she WAS German of course!)

She married a British Serviceman in 1947 and came home with him..... to live near Leicester. Unfortunately in 2005 she sadly passed on. So I can not corroborate what I'm about to write.

She had been a Telephone Operator and progressed to be a supervisor. She served in Germany, Belgium and France and eventually back in Germany until the wars end when she was transferred to the Luftwaffe to man anti aircraft guns "against Russian tanks".

Her uniform as an Army helferin was MID GREY, of wool, double breasted with glass buttons and the eagle stitched on below the right pocket flap. As a supervisor she was issued the same uniform which was a slightly lighter grey and a lighter weight wool. She wore a light grey cotton shirt with an eagle stitched on. She had three shirts when first inducted and one had pockets on. The girls didn't like them as they made their bustline look "funny". She came into contact with many other branches of service - KM. SS and LW - KM Helferinnen wore Dark Blue uniforms. SS wore "THE SAME COLOUR UNIFORMS WE DID BUT WITH A BIG UGLY ROUND SS BADGE" and LW wore the Luftwaffe Blue uniforms. She worked alongside male operators a lot of the time and they handled the "SECRET TRAFFIC". I asked about the oversmock they wore inside and she said that was a light grey with a detachable white collar to keep it "clean looking for longer". They got three collars apparently. It was from these detaisl that my missus made her first smock. Louise wears a very good copy (from the photos taken at Waltham) as it is identical to my other half's example. we showed this to the lady and she said "THAT'S IT! THAT'S A GRAUMAUS OVERSMOCK!" So the colour of the smock Lou wears is the one to be copied for a graumaus.

In Belgium she obtained a single breasted jacket which she said was more comfortable and looked smarter than the double breasted one. But she was required to wear the double breasted one on duty and saved the single breasted for walking out.

I specifically asked if any Helferin ever wore feldgrau.... the answer was "NO - NOT THAT I EVER SAW" I made it plain that we had only "Allo Allo" to go on which made her laugh and she said that in some instances the series wasnt' that for from the truth but the uniform Helga wore was a "FANTASY ITEM"... (And I always thought it was quite close)

So it would seem that SBG have it right - They wear a mid grey wool uniform not as heavy as a mans. It's a shame there is no Bund for Helferinnen and not many of them are discovered. I used to look forward to meeting "my veteran helferin" and her family took LOADS of pictures of us chatting..... Apparently the Windhund boys put a sparkle back in her eye according to the family...... Her grandson nearly joined us but "Oma drew the line at that" AND HE WAS MY AGE!!!!!!!

I hope this post is seen as objective and informative - I'm sorry I can't back it up more than saying - "I spoke with a veteran" but passing on what one learns as accurately as possible is a piece in the puzzle isn't it? I have more information that I can recall accurately - about her Luftwaffe uniforms and other stuff which wouldn't probably interest the reader here.

I miss the old folk....... makes me all reflective writing this. :cry:
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DAS MEDIC
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Re: Helferinen Uniforms

Post by DAS MEDIC »

good post pd :wink:
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Wilder Feger
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Re: Helferinen Uniforms

Post by Wilder Feger »

Hoffman Grink wrote:I have more information that I can recall accurately - about her Luftwaffe uniforms and other stuff which wouldn't probably interest the reader here.
Paul, I'd be interested in reading it if you want to post it somewhere. Thanks for posting the other information as well, it was very informative and it sounds like she was a lovely lady.

Cheers,
Kelly
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JDR
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Re: Helferinen Uniforms

Post by JDR »

i will have to upload a picture i took at the military museum in paris earlier this year of the Helfreinen uniform.
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KDF
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Re: Helferinen Uniforms

Post by KDF »

Hi all,

Please bear with me on this subject , as though who know me can confirm I`m not too good at posting on the internet

Relax, put yer feet up and try not to fall asleep please. :)

Right my view of this and the other posts about Female uniforms is based on collecting books and uniforms for the past 20 odd years. However that doesnt make me or anyone else for that matter ( on any subject at all ) an expert. The ONLY people who are experts in their `field` are the people who actually made the stuff in the first place. The only thing we can do is collect as much info such as photos ,examples and talking to folk who were there at the time, which is none of us.

Bearing in mind the vast number of factories making raw material, the differnce in quality over the years as raw material got rarer , and the added wood content to wool incresing to make up for this it`s not surprising that colours of all uniforms for the men were different , never mind the limited amount of female uniforms issued. So in other words the chances of having the same material colour are rare. KNOWING that basic material can degrade over time in colour ,even if kept out of direct light etc it makes originals not precise too.

Another thing is terminology of colours. Everyone says FeldGrau this and Grau that. I`ve seen original tunics etc of so varied colour from the same year from almost a Green ( nope not police ) to almost Lufty Blue/Grey. Unless you have the batch samples , and i know some who as some , it`s VERY difficult to almost impossible 60 years alter to get it correct. You should see the 16`x 5 ` roll of original Lufty material I have.Should I go around checking every one who does lufty and say..nope take that off it`s the wrong colour. Of course not.

Remember with colours for want of a better way of me getting my head around it, Ford and Toyota may call the Red they both use as `Sunset Red` but they could be completely different colour codes . And hence different colours.

So that covers colours, batchs and names for it.

Still with me ? Good.

Next is how do any of the suppliers/makes of any of the kit we have now manage to get the designs of it ?


Best things are original examples. Female kit is rare for the Axis side. I`ve seen some awful stuff in museums in France etc that are postwar or made up. So even so called originals need careful looking overs. Still the best thing though, and when used with wartime photos ( and film footage like the 3 second clip of an ss helfrin ,walking at the front of parade) is the best way to go. I`d say that any texts that are in books need reviewing carefully, as like me I take what someone as written as the truth. Not always the case!

So all these photos I`ve got out of books and mags need scanning etc and posting. There`s tons of them out there too. The other ( USA ?) forums have lots and it would be nice if someone asked them ever so nicely if we could put them all on one site and added to it. Just athought .?

To close, folk need to research before making comments ( me too ), keep their minds open and try and encourage the ladies to come into the hobby. Not slate them off or use them to put their group forward. I think the colours are close aand the design.Perhaps in future we as a hobby should ask a supplier where they got the design and colour etc from before we pick a single book up and start being not nice eh ?

Remember that although many women were issued uniforms , that many were not and were lucky to have an armband stating which service they were working for!!!!

Right I`ve said enough.Help with posting the photos would be nice . I`ve written this after reading some posts on here with a view to helping others.

Lads, remember that a lady in uniform is a morale booster too.

Regards,

Keith

PS I forgot to add that like for their male counterparts that theory based kits lists were by mid to late war just that. However I have a photo in colour that shows to ladies wearing blouses with a greenish tint.
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KDF
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Re: Helferinen Uniforms

Post by KDF »

Where`s everyone gone on this subject ? Have I put everyone off commenting ?

What I wanted to do was `show` that rather than say thats wrong thats right etc maybe a way of finding out the best we can is to ask/look at what it is and go from there with logical way of asking how do we know what it is being made and where the info is from ?
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