Tiger 1 damage photos

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Jeppsson |11.SS|
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Re: Tiger 1 damage photos

Post by Jeppsson |11.SS| »

It's just fair to add,

The Kill Ratio was, 10 to 1.

Meaning One German tank knocked out means 10 Soviet tanks knocked out. Just says alot doesnt it ? ;)
Mikkel
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Re: Tiger 1 damage photos

Post by Mikkel »

stefan, The tiger captured in Tunesia didn't recieve a penetrating hit either. But was hit below the gun, which caused the crew to bail.



The 'killratio' is also inflated because of the very high numbers of obsolete tanks they russians fielded at the beginning of the conflict. After they focused production of the T34 and bagan to recieve sufficient number of radio sets, the numbers were considerably different.
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stefan
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Re: Tiger 1 damage photos

Post by stefan »

Yes Mikkel that's right after it grazed the barrel it lodged itself below the mantlet stopping the travis gear from working

the bit that amazes me is how the crew abandoned the tank without destroying it disobeying a direct order to make sure that
this new vehicle didnt fall into enemy hands

where were the rest of the troop ? why could they not drive it out of danger ? I am afraid I dont know enough about this
particular event but maybe someone knows the reason why it was left in the field ?

as for kill ratios I think a lot has to do with crew experience and training also the T34 only had a 4 man crew the Tiger 5
this means the commander could consternate on target acquisition and placing the vehicle in the best ground rather than all
that and loading the main armourment like his Russians foe

also the crews were the best in their field having served in lesser tanks and proved themselves to be selected for Tigers
I have read somewhere in one of my many books that Germans often found T34s with the crews locked in their vehicles with no
escape , speaks volumes !
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LAH- Obergrenadier
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Re: Tiger 1 damage photos

Post by LAH- Obergrenadier »

stefan wrote:
Mere scratches?
I'd venture the bottom two were fatal for the turret crew, ever seen the rear face of armour plate that has such damage to the front? The energy released in such impacts is huge.
Stig I doubt it? the gun mantlet was 120mm thick and the turret frontal armour was 100mm so thats 220mm those rounds would have to
penetrate to enter the crew compartment ,as you can see the rounds are still stuck in the mantlet having failed to penetrate the remaining 100mm of turret armour

this Tank was designed as a mobile pill box and hull down was virtually impenetrable and with the 88mm main armament could pick off targets at its leisure

the secret of the Tiger was good protection excellent firepower average maneuverability ,but given that the crews were hand picked
men the best of the best you had an awesome combination

unlike the T34 although a good tank the crews were not experienced as such. and the Sherman well what can I say only the Firefly was a
sort of match

90% of a tanks effectiveness is how the commander and crew work with it, the best tank in the world is useless with an inexperienced crew
who place the vehicle in open ground vunerable to enemy fire ,a good commander will use dead ground and camouflaged fire positions
Couldn't have explained it better myself....therefore I come back to my original point 'mere scratches'

Still my all time favourite Panzer with the Panther a close second.....

See you all at Belters with Panzer 3..... :wink: :wink: :wink: BIGH
STURMPANZER ABTEILUNG
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LAH650
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Re: Tiger 1 damage photos

Post by LAH650 »

As I understand it a 57mm/6pdr from a Churchill....

Hit the crane hanldeing lug (can't think what its called) on the gun mantel, the round was deflected down into the drivers hatch removing that and causing injury to the driver....

Later the hatch was replaced with another one but it was a gunners .... so in some early photos it appears with two left hatches.... like the Aifix 1/76 Tiger has no Turret storage bin, as it was missing when the modlers did the visit.....

crews tend to bail out for fear of fire etc it takes an experinced crew to stay...

Didn't Backmann (sp) pull his side arm on his radioman/gunner because he wanted out...

Also the Tiger II in the US was captured because it was hit by a smoke/WP round, crew thought it was on fire so got out.... another was also taken after a WP the AP caused the crew to leave....

Tiger 213 was left because the main gun site was 'knocked' off centre by a hit....

Couldn't fire back... ok had a fuel issue as well....

No crews tended to get out.....
Jeppsson |11.SS|
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Re: Tiger 1 damage photos

Post by Jeppsson |11.SS| »

Just look at SS-Hauptsturmführer Michael Wittmanns Career in the Tiger I , He fully ussed the Tiger I , and look what he did !

So its fair to say, in good hands, the Tiger I is nothing else than a Beast you should be scared of, im sure the allies shit their pants more than once when they saw a Tiger I rolling up ! :lol:

That goes of course for the Panther and Tiger II too, Jagdpanther, ahh gotta love the german tanks !
Franz repper
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Re: Tiger 1 damage photos

Post by Franz repper »

Here is an after action report on the Tiger ,Now its amazing that the Tiger got the status as a Legend when you read throw this lot . I agree with stefan on the good crew as it would take a good driver to keep this running

Maintanance Platoon In the Field ,29th January 1943
502nd Heavy Panzer Battalion
Inspector Cenker
Shop Forman Neubert
Technical After Action Report

I. Damage to the running gear
Flange Fasteners for the outer road wheels loosten themselves while moving. Result : Loss of the outer roadwheels .Severe wear on the road wheels ,Rubber surfaces ,and road wheel rims

Cause

a) The flange for attaching the outerroad whells is much to small .The fastening screws are to week and too shor. The threads on the screws are much to course

b) When the rubber outerlyer of the road wheel is damaged ,the road wheel rims jam on the track, bend the outeredge of the rim, and cannot be used any more

c) Too narrow mounting of the road wheels between the outer and inner ones , space of 10cm at the most

d) Bending of the second lifting arm from the front

e) Current lock-down devices insufficient .Great care most be taken in mounting the flanges

Remedy

for a) Make the fastening flange larger .Make the screws for them longer and furnish them with fine threading ; Only employ screws where lock nuts can be used

for b) When constructing the rubber outer layer on the road wheel ,it should be ensured that the first layer of rubber (Wire netteng) is kept even with the rims . By doing this it can be ensured that the road wheels continue to roll on the first rubber or wire netting when the top layer of rubber becomes detached result : the heavy wear on the road wheels and the rims can be avoided

for c) The too-narrow mounting of the road wheels did not hold up very well in the winter, with the result that heavy wear
on the rubber tyers has occurred .If the vehicle moves in very poor terrain with alot of rocks and ice ,the spaces between the wheels jam up with sand and stones to such a degree that lifting arms are often bend and torsion bars broken . It is requested (Suggested) that the spaces between the road wheels be kept somewhat greater

for d ) See c above

for e ) As lock-downs for the screws , use the halfmoon- shaped pice sheet metal designed for two screws which was recently delivered from Henschel; however both ends be made longer so that the lock-down clamps are higher. It must be ensured during installation that the support ring is kept clean (scratch away the paint )

II Track pins sliding out

Reason
Securing devices for the track pins are to weak ( Inner and outer)

Remedy
Deeper indentation and stronger securing devices at the insid end (Track side) ,do not weld the fasteners on but use screws for the track pins

III Loosening of the fastening screws (Cone shaped) on the drive sprocket

Remedy
Frequent tightening of the cone shaped screws in the field or securing them by boring through the heads of the screws and locking them with wire

Mounting of the running gear

Mounting and dismounting device for road wheels
The following spanners must be made stronger
52 mm
27mm
32mm
Devices for fixing the lifting arms in place when changing torsion bars are needed

IV Damage to the cooling system

Reason

Loss of coolant at the hose connectors .Poor hose connectors, connecting hoses and pipes to short

Remedy

SKF hose connector (Like Maybach)
Presently fastened with wire by the troops .Longer connecting hoses. Lips at the end of the pipes

Connecting pipe for the radiator water outlet from the motor to the right radiator


Reason

When opening and closing of the rear deak access hatch ,one of the latches presses against the connecting pipe
and pushes it down ,because of this the connecting pipe is twisted and the hose fastener loosened
Result :leakage and loss of radiator coolant

Remedy

Move the access hatch latch . at present troops are breaking off the far edge

V Damage to the fuel feeds lines

Leaky fuel tanks ,leaky connections from the upper tank to the lower tank

Remendy

Better installation ,check the soldering during installation pay special attention to the riveting of the reinforcement metal

Loss of fuel

Reason
Loosening of the membrane screws at the fuel pump.Bad seals on the sight indicators .Loosening of the lines to the fuel pump

Remedy

In general ,better tightening of all the screws and lines during installation at the plant .After longer road marches retightening in the field as well . lock down screws on the fuel lines

Fuel Feed to the carburetor

Reason

Material deforms

Remedy

Other material has been planned by Maybach


VI Damage to the motor (Carburetor fires )

Reason
a) When dismounting the air collection pipe ,all seals are damaged ( at present cork seals)

b) when the cork seals on the air collection pipe are damaged ,a gap is created and with it the possibility of backfiring flames escaping

c) Leaky flots. Result a change in fuel levels and overflowing of fuel

Remedy
for a) Use of special or not so easily damaged material or modification by the carburetor manufacturer

for b) This malfunction can be eliminated by better seals

for c) Thorough checking of the carburetor and flots by the manufacturer

VII Engine fires

Reason

a) Ignition of spilled oil (the result of poor outer crankshaft seals)

b) Poor seating of the lines leading to the fuel pump.result leakage of fuel

c) Poor seating of the screw cap to the oil fill funnel Result :leakage of oil

This overflowing oil drops onto the muffler .Oil also leaks when the seal is missing

Remedy

for a) Use of better crankshaft seals

for b) Tightening of all the fual lines and locking down nuts

for c) Tightening the fill cap screw with a wrench is not always possible during operations. For this reason ,it is suggested that a larger-sized wing nut be used insted of a sixsides screw .That would guarantee a good tightening even by hand .The seal in the filler cap screw should be mounted in such manner that its loss in the field is not possible.

It would be desirable if the driver had the opportunity while making a maintenance halt during an operation to check his oil level without opening the rear hatch

VIII Inadequate fire extinguishing system

Reason
The crew has been given no chance to extinguish a fire in the engine compartment without leaving the fighting compartment without leaving the fighting compartment whenever a fire starts

1.For inexplicable reasons ,the automatic fire extinguisher does not activate sometimes when there is a carburetor fire

2.After two or three uses of the automatic fire extinguisher ,it is empty and there is no opportunity for the troops in the field to refill or replace it

Remedy
It is suggested that an opening be installed in the firewall to the engine compartment so that the opportunity always exists of extinguishing the engine fire in the quickest manner possible without leaving the fighting compartment .Itis absolutely necessary to mount a large 5 ltr tetra carbon dioxide fire extinguisher in the fighting compartment so that any fire can be extinguished at any time

IX Transmission damage

Changing of the transfer devices ; specifically ,elongation of the wires (external).Result : Changing of the shifting pattern

wearing out of the acceleration brake (1st brake). Individual shifting cylinders displace on their own . Reinforcement and fastening of the individual actuation levers has been performed in such a faulty manner that ,to a large extent ,the preson pins and cotter pins of the individual bolts are missing .Because these parts are located behind the transmission housing ,cheaking them is impossible without dismantling the housing . Provide the line system in the transmission with better seals or tighten down better during assembly

Remedy

The much to large wear on the acceleration brake is caused by shifting to the 4th or 5th gear
It is suggested that sturdier material be usedby the production facility for this brake .

In manufacturing the transfer devices ,great attention must be paid to the wirs groups and assembly .In no case must easily malleable material be used . During the assembly and inspection of the transmissions by the manufacturer or the army acceptance office ,it must be ensured that all outside actuation levers and shafts are properly furnished with Preson pins and cotter pins . Because of these smal deficiencies ,vehicles have broken down . For the ajustment of the individual shafts hours of work are often necessary by the soldiers who who have to perform this work with out anytype of aids .Likewise ,it must be ensured by the manufacturer that the loosening of the oil pressure lines in the transmission as well as the displacement of shifting cylinders on their own is no possible

For the most part ,various deficiencies and disruptions in the shifting transmission could be avoided if the transmissions are not driven until they reach their proper operating temperature . This is frequently not possible .For this reason ,Measures must be taken so that the vehicles can be driven with out damage even when they have not reached operating temperature
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Tychsen
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Re: Tiger 1 damage photos

Post by Tychsen »

Interesting report Franz - like all machines she had her good and bad points , and service life produced problems which were not forseen.

The British Intelligence report of the tank captured in North Africa makes interesting reading - many good points in it but it is warts and all - it also produced the down side of the Tiger.
In terms of gun and armour she as hard to beat but a tank has to be more than a mobile pill box and that line of thinking does defeat the nature of the German thinking on tank warfare.

Whilst she could destroy any Allied or Soviet tank with ease and on ground of her choosing she was able to dominate the situation she was product of a wartime situation which did not allow for sufficent development time she owed more to the MK IV line of thinking than that of the T/34 - Panther.
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Helmut Schegel
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Re: Tiger 1 damage photos

Post by Helmut Schegel »

Most Allied evaluations of the Tiger were done on capured examples and carried out without concerns for maintenance or access to spare parts.
The Tiger I needed a lot of maintenance to remain in action as did the Tiger II. In experienced hands they were a formidable opponent, just ask anyone who came up against them.
Despite commonly held opinion, their cross country performance was a good as many Allied tanks and of course their main armament and gun control equipment was second to none.
The Panther suffered from rushed development ,the Germans went to war in '39 with out a development plan for their armour and therefore no new models in the pipe line.
The 'heavy tank' concept which eventually became the Tiger I had been in development before the war started and despite what some say , the Tiger was not a response ot the T-34 or KV-1 which were encountered in Russia. The Panther was a response to the T-34, some say the time and resources spent on the Panther, would have been better spent developing the Panzer IV(although what became the Panther turret with the L70 gun was shown to overload the Panzer IV chassis).
Given the choice between crewing a Tiger facing 4 T-34s or Shermans or crewing one of the T-34s or Shermans facing a Tiger I would choose the Tiger every time.
The Tiger II was supposed to have a 1000hp engine and a new 100mm gun but was rushed into service with the Panther engine and the 88 L70 gun, fascinating to consider what it would have been if properly developed.
3 Kp./Jäger Regiment 83
" Regimenter sterben zehnmahl, aber es bleibt....das Regiment."
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Tychsen
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Re: Tiger 1 damage photos

Post by Tychsen »

The need to be able to use what was to hand , the lack of developmental time available generated a pragmatic need for compromise which was instigated by the realities of the situation Germany was in resources and above all time was fast running out.
The Tiger (s) were at best a panacea for Germany's overall war situation - remarkable tanks which could beat anyting set against them but tanks which were not in themselves remotely able to alter Germany's position.
When the Allies saw the size of Russian tanks in Berlin in 45 and the numbers which could be produced they realised what they were up against in terms of the military arm of their fast fading friends political agenda and they had an insight into the chair recently vacated by Germany's armoured designers and production firms.
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