Suitable Camouflage Smock for an HG Division Impression?

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dagda
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Re: Suitable Camouflage Smock for an HG Division Impression?

Post by dagda »

From The Bender/Peterson book, 'Hermann Goring, from regiment to Fallschirmpanzerkorps'pp 122-124

'In the summer of 1942, the availability of surplus W-SS camoflage clothing was at a minimum and that of Wehrmacht patterns was non-existent. Thus,only 10% of the HG soldiers received their issue and this was envisioned to increase to 20% as stocks became available. Under these circumstances, the following units were to be equiped with the limited camouflage outfits,
Stabskompanie, including the Flakzug 310 camo outfits
I Btl.-Btl.Stab, 1-4 kp and 5.Bttr, 1430 camo outfits
II Btl.-Rgt Stab,Btl Stab and 5-8 KP, 1260 camo outfits
III Btl. -Btl.Stab 10 and 11 KP, 890 camo outfits
I,Abt,-4 and 14 Bttr, 480 camo outfits
II,Abt,-9., 11.Bttr. and 9 Kp, 630 camo outfits.'

and 'In 1943, Hermann Goring ground combat units were issued 3/4 length camouflage jackets as worn by members of Luftwaffe field divisions.'

so there you go
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kiler
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Re: Suitable Camouflage Smock for an HG Division Impression?

Post by kiler »

I`ve read B&P book and as I remember there were only 2 pictures of FD jackets. On the other hand, in Quarries HG book (Osprey Vanguard) there are a lot of SS-smock pictures and no FD jacket photos. This is the main source of my doubts.

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Stadler
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Re: Suitable Camouflage Smock for an HG Division Impression?

Post by Stadler »

In my opinion there's big problem with identidying HG troops from 1944, because they apearance was not different than other LW tropps.

LW Tarnbluse covered field uniform (so there's no cufftitle visible), and additionaly in early 1944 wearing white collar patches was forbidden (but as usually there were some exceptions).

Probably many LW pictures really shows HG soldiers, but we can not claim 100% sure that "they are they" :)
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mark bogers
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Re: Suitable Camouflage Smock for an HG Division Impression?

Post by mark bogers »

More books confirm that Waffen SS camo was very limited (arround 5000 pieces) like Brian L. Davis Uniforms and insignia of the Luftwaffe, and Angolia's Luftwaffe uniforms and traditions.

BTW Stadler: I don't think that collar patches was forbidden after spring 1944, they just stopped producing them and were supplied till stocks were exhausted ;)

Cheers!
Karl Fliege, kanonier der Deutsche Luftwaffe am Einsatzhafen Woensdrecht, Flakstelle Buitendreef 3./Lei. Flak-Abt. 668

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dagda
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Re: Suitable Camouflage Smock for an HG Division Impression?

Post by dagda »

Stadler is quite correct.

From 'Uniforms and Traditions of the luftwaffe volume 2' p256

'Wear of the white collar patches, which were quite popular and striking, was prohibited with the field uniforms by a divisional order of January 1944.'
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Sheikh Al Stranghi
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Re: Suitable Camouflage Smock for an HG Division Impression?

Post by Sheikh Al Stranghi »

That would mean they still kept their white tabs on their everyday tunics?

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mark bogers
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Re: Suitable Camouflage Smock for an HG Division Impression?

Post by mark bogers »

dagda wrote:Stadler is quite correct.

From 'Uniforms and Traditions of the luftwaffe volume 2' p256

'Wear of the white collar patches, which were quite popular and striking, was prohibited with the field uniforms by a divisional order of January 1944.'
hmmmmm, I don't have the book right now, but I think you're right. It was only effective for HG soldiers, not others like Flak, Nachrichten, etc

Cheers
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Stadler
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Re: Suitable Camouflage Smock for an HG Division Impression?

Post by Stadler »

Sheikh Al Stranghi wrote:That would mean they still kept their white tabs on their everyday tunics?
You probably mean "everyday tunic" as service uniform?

If so, you're right.

HG soldiers still wore white collar patches on their service uniform [garrison, walking out and so on]
Regulation was made only for field uniform.
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Sheikh Al Stranghi
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Re: Suitable Camouflage Smock for an HG Division Impression?

Post by Sheikh Al Stranghi »

Dienstanzug. Walking out would be ausgehanzug, which would be a different class of uniform.

kiler
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Re: Suitable Camouflage Smock for an HG Division Impression?

Post by kiler »

OK, finally found what I was looking for. :D

In this WAF thread you can find some pictures of HG Div in Tuskany in the summer of 1944 from Italian book "La Wehrmacht in Toscana". Some of them have even been already published on this forum. Seems that there was a mixture of LW and SS camo used at this time and I`m almost sure that the same mixture was used in August 1944 during the battle of Studzianki in Poland.

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/ ... ion&page=8

Mooyman
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Re: Suitable Camouflage Smock for an HG Division Impression?

Post by Mooyman »

kiler wrote:OK, finally found what I was looking for. :D

In this WAF thread you can find some pictures of HG Div in Tuskany in the summer of 1944 from Italian book "La Wehrmacht in Toscana". Some of them have even been already published on this forum. Seems that there was a mixture of LW and SS camo used at this time and I`m almost sure that the same mixture was used in August 1944 during the battle of Studzianki in Poland.

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/ ... ion&page=8
a greath help on uniforms

thanks for sharing.
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kiler
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Re: Suitable Camouflage Smock for an HG Division Impression?

Post by kiler »

Another great photo of HG grenadiers from WAF can be found here:

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/ ... 942&page=4

Look at the snipers photo from recaptured Bautzen (around 25 of April 1945): it appears to me that the first one on the right has Sumpf FD Jacket.

To be honest, it would be strange for me, if the most elite LW ground unit wouldn`t receive latest LW camo garment. If not them, then who?

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mark bogers
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Re: Suitable Camouflage Smock for an HG Division Impression?

Post by mark bogers »

kiler wrote:Another great photo of HG grenadiers from WAF can be found here:

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/ ... 942&page=4

Look at the snipers photo from recaptured Bautzen (around 25 of April 1945): it appears to me that the first one on the right has Sumpf FD Jacket.

To be honest, it would be strange for me, if the most elite LW ground unit wouldn`t receive latest LW camo garment. If not them, then who?
Like most items: New stocks will be received to the soldiers, after the exhaustion of the older one (in this case: The Luftwaffe Splitter B Tarnjacke) ;)
Karl Fliege, kanonier der Deutsche Luftwaffe am Einsatzhafen Woensdrecht, Flakstelle Buitendreef 3./Lei. Flak-Abt. 668

Sheikh Al Stranghi
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Re: Suitable Camouflage Smock for an HG Division Impression?

Post by Sheikh Al Stranghi »

Can't really tell whether that's sumpf or not. Also, as with most army issue items, you don't get new stuff until the old stuff is unservicable.

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dagda
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Re: Suitable Camouflage Smock for an HG Division Impression?

Post by dagda »

In April 45 the resupply argument is moot. Good pic, never seen that before. The recapture of Bautzen the last victory in the East. Notice the FJ kit, some FJ were in the HG at the time.
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I keep this picture to keep my hate strong!

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