Heer useage of the Svt40

[2ad82recon]

Guys has anyone got any links to photos of the Tokarev Svt40 in use by axis forces...i know there is a website with lots of captured weapons pics but cant find it

Also was the Svt 40 a commonly used captured weapon .

Thanks guys

Regards

Lloyd

[Stigroadie]

Get a K98. If this were us asking about paratroopers with Thompsons M1 smg or M1 carbines with bayonet lugs on d-day you would tell us to behave and buy a weapon fit for the soldier.
So, here is us telling you to buy a weapon fit for the soldier. Get a K98. With a SVT40 you are almost certainly tied to the eastern front and there is a good chance in a second line unit. The issued captured weapons are rare as ....a rare thing, anyone checked the waffenamp on the worldwide arms ones? Same as that on their ammo cans?
You can go anywhere and be anyone with a 98. You cant easily be wrong.

[2ad82recon]

Hi Stig mate..i hear you loud and clear...but i do already have a K98..and was looking to expand on my upcoming Luftwaffe FD impression.So i take it from the posting Stig that an Svt 40 was a very uncommon captured weapon correct

Regards

Lloyd

[Parsifal]

They used anything they could get their hands on. Sepp Allenberger learned learned to snipe with a 91/30 rifle. Russian materiel was very sturdy and reliable in general.
I definitely wouldnt do it for reenacting since you'd be boxing yourself to Ostfront events. But as usual, there's photo evidence of almost anything. So here :

[Stigroadie]

It's not that they didn't get used, they certainly did but for every 1 svt you will see 500 or more K98. It's one more thing thats over done.
If it's kept in theatre then it's passable, it's when units that only saw action in the west take the field with Ppsh and SVT that it all gets a bit farby. Would the fuel and transport strapped germans transport russian rifle ammo a 1/3rd the way around the globe to feed some soldiers need for a gucci weapon? They might have done, it's not the only stupid thing they did during the war, if they did they deserved to lose.
I'm a bit of a stick in the mud when it comes to non issue items. Local and comfort enhancing swag I can understand, stuff that means more work for you or the supply train I avoid.
Plus, for field division you would have to capture one first. They spent more time getting mown down than capturing rifles.

[mario33]

Yes, indeed, Sepp Allerberger used both mosin-nagant and svt, but he soon found the scopes to be inferior as compared to German counterparts. Before he got his scoped k98 he constantly had problems with munition for his mosin. He sighed with relief when he got k98 (and lots of 'B' type explosive bullets). He also used G43 when faster shooting on shorter ranges was expected (like in reconaissance missions).

He mentioned svt but didnt like it very much...

Although he also state that russian rifles were better suited for winter warfare - loose fit enabled them to work smoothly even in extremely low temperatures. On the other hand, finely crafted, tightly fit k98s or g43s were just hell for a soldier trying to keep them working well below zero.

One more account - I've heard lots of accounts of old people that witnessed Germans withdrawing from Poland in 1944/45. They usually mentioned lots of 'those russian guns with round magazines' being used by Germans. And they really meant LOTS ! And its not only because it was a very reliable and handy weapon. In fact the Germans could use their own ammo !

Ppsh41 uses 7.62x25mm Tokarev pistol cartridge. In most cases, due to famous Russian tigh fit in weapon production the gun also accepted 7.63x25mm Mauser cartridge (Tokariev cartridge was anyhow copied from Mauser one) - used e.g. in Mauser C96. During the Continuation War Finnish Army alone ordered one million Mauser rounds to be used in captured Ppsh at Fabrique Nationale de Herstal.

Ammo issue is in my opionion the major factor when discussing captured weapons usage. To sum up - only Ppsh was used in larger quantities - just because there was a Garman-based source of spare ammo.

[JB--06]

There are a few pics I have seen with this rifle used in the SS and the WH,

A famous picture (colour) with a WH nco Kinghtscross holder on his knee holding this rifle,
Another i have seen before here in Switzerland it even had German Markings.


Thanks and hope someone has that pic...


Thanks


Jonny

[Stigroadie]

But how many pictures have you seen of K98 or G43 or MP40 or MP/Stg44 or MG34 or MG42? Thats the point. Lloyd is making his first steps into axis re-enacting and is straight away looking for the gucci kit.
A long standing US re-enactor he would be very swift to tell you if you were to dip your toe into the american scene that as an infantryman you should be buying an M1 garand or if you really must an M1 Carbine. I'm sure there are stories and images of US troops with Mp40 and the like but I doubt he would endorse you carrying one.
This is nothing against Lloyd, I consider him a friend, it's my attempt to set him on a straight path in our branch of the hobby.
They were used, captured stocks were issued as SIG.259(r) or some such, but the idea I thought was to represent the landser as he would have been seen during WW2. Thats how I see lloyd in his US impression, I imagine thats how he would wish to be as a german.

[les hearn]

i aggree with stig ..good old 98

if you have allrerady got the 40 then put it on the ground seperate from the display with a note saying something like
"captured weapons where sometimes used like the ...blah blah..."
use it as a seperate display ......

[Stigroadie]

I've got one myself, and a Mosin and any number of Brit and American weapons. I have a Stg44 but I always use the K98 cos thats what they had.

[2ad82recon]

Point very well made and put across Stig....i thankyou for the input.....so in axis reenactment its safe to say..."be the rule...not the exception to the rule"

Used but not very common.....the and yes i concur with your statements that an MP-40 in a GIs hands would look ok but in numbers way too "farby"

Regards

LLoyd

[les hearn]

now thewre speeks a tru reenactor
one who is really willing to listen
and not one who does what he wants regardless of wether is right or wrong

good on ya fella

hope i dont sound too patronising ...no intentions too

[Parsifal]

Good advice fellas. I take my Mosin only to public events for show. But I always use one of my two reliable k98s. It was the workhorse of the Wehrmacht and I wouldn't use anything else (ok, Maybe an mp40 if I had the $$).
If you're just itchin' to get something besides the k98, I'd get a G43 for mid-late war events...

[Helmut Schegel]

G-43, MP44, issued one or two to a rifle squad, very rarely would an entire squad be issued with these weapons(and I know about the picture of a 17th SS PzGdr squad all with Mp44s). Non-standard and captured weapons would be removed from you by the FG. If its not recorded in your Soldbuch it would be confiscated and they would ask where your K98 was.

[2ad82recon]

AH ! now thats an interesting slant Brian......thanks..never thought of it that way

Les mate.... ...Thanks for the compliment

Regards

LLoyd