wwii axis reenactment forum

Folks please look at this cos it will affect our hobby I reckon http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-15-6110_en.htm

The part that concerns us I think is this
Stricter rules to ban certain semi-automatic firearms, which will not, under any circumstance, be allowed to be held by private persons, even if they have been permanently deactivated;
Stricter conditions for the circulation of deactivated firearms;
Stricter conditions for collectors to limit the risk of sale to criminals.


Though what will fall into this category is unknown

suggest you all read this and understand the potential implications:

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-15-6110_en.htm

Some sections from the proposed directive: http://ec.europa.eu/DocsRoom/documents/ ... ons/native

"Consequently, for the most dangerous firearms (category A) stricter rules have been introduced – even if they are deactivated. This means that deactivated firearms from Category A will not be allowed to be owned nor traded (except for museums)"

NOTE: Category A is defined as "prohibited weapons - military weapons".

"Member States shall take all appropriate steps to prohibit the acquisition and the possession of the firearms and ammunition classified in category A and to destroy those firearms and ammunition held in violation of this provison and seized."

With the only slight caveat (which will mean museums probably):
"Member States may authorise bodies concerned with the cultural and historical aspects of weapons and recognised as such by the Member State in whose territory they are established to keep in their possession firearms classified in category A acquired before [the date of entry into force of this Directive] provided they have been deactivated in accordance with the provisions that implement Article 10(b)."

Category A (prohibited) currently contains:

1. Explosive military missiles and launchers.
2. Automatic firearms.
3. Firearms disguised as other objects.
4. Ammunition with penetrating, explosive or incendiary projectiles, and the projectiles for such ammunition.
5. Pistol and revolver ammunition with expanding projectiles and the projectiles for such ammunition, except in the case of weapons for hunting or for target shooting, for persons entitled to use.

The wording now wants to add:
(13) in Annex I to Directive 91/477/EC part II is amended as follows:
(a) point A is amended as follows:
(i) in Category A, the following points are added:
‘6. Automatic firearms which have been converted into semi-automatic firearms;
7. Semi-automatic firearms for civilian use which resemble weapons with automatic mechanisms
8. Firearms under points 1 to 7 after having been deactivated’;

The last bit in red is the dodgy one for reenactors

Sign the petition against these law-changes:

https://www.change.org/p/council-of-the ... e_petition

Oh, how EU-like: completely disarm people when there are armed extremists running around Europe and by the way close down hobby of thousands of people (cause reenactors are well known from bloody shootings all over the continent).
They should better stick to regulating the length of candle flames.

Anyway, petition signed.

If they get their way it will be the start of things to come, anything military will be considered in the future, radios, vehicles uniforms etc sneaked in by our gutless government.

This is now law?

so far as I can see, yes though there are some who say not but I reckon they are the ones who either don't believe it or are burying there head in the sand

here is one side of the argument

Some commentary from Steven Kendrick of the DGCA:


"On April 8th, the new EU-wide deactivation standard comes into force and
applies to any deac "placed on the market", this technically means the deac
has to be updated to the new specification.

However this requirement hasn't been transposed into UK legislation, or any
EU member state's legislation for that matter, so there's no method of
enforcing it until they do.

Moreover, the new specification suffers from a number of serious flaws and
is basically unworkable for certain guns and even worse, even if you wanted
to update your deac to the new specification, it's not clear that it would
be technically feasible to apply it to an already deactivated firearm.

The good news is that the European Parliament has proposed a raft of
amendments to the proposed amendment to the Firearms Directive:

These do two things - the first is that they scrap all the stupid proposals
made by the European Commission in relation to deactivated firearms. The
requirement for museums to deactivate their collections of Category A
weapons would be removed. The requirement for deactivated Category A
weapons to be banned would also be removed. The requirement for other
categories of deactivated firearms to go under Category C (subject to
declaration - i.e. registration) would be gone.

The second thing the amendments do is unscramble the botched deactivation
regulations made under the existing Directive and better yet retroactively
allow for the recognition of older deactivation standards used by member
states, which means you wouldn't have to "update" your deacs to transfer
them. (However I think it's unlikely pre-89 deacs in the UK would be
recognised and the pre-95 standard might not be).

It's hard to say if all of the amendments will be approved but the Council
of Ministers appears to generally support them as well so I'm reasonably
sure they will happen. Certainly doesn't hurt to write to your MEPs and ask
them to support the amendments though.

So to summarise, from April 8th and for some months after, the whole
situation is going to be a total mess and hopefully it will then be sorted
out when the amendments to the Directive come into force.

The downside will be that the EU-wide deactivation standard is stricter; the
upside is that it is EU-wide, so that will make it next to impossible for
BIS and the Home Office to argue against imports into the UK. Or in fact
exports from the UK, the Proof Houses could well see an uptick in business!".

so if I owned a bren or a browning 1922 model, post 95 deact and kept it but didn't sell it I'd be ok unless I wanted to sell it in which case I'd have to get it 'even more' deactivated? Or does everyone that currently owns a deact have to get it even more deactivated? bit fubar allround init.....

that would appear to be so however apparently some deact sellers are applying the new rules and others not. Its a cock up from start to finish actually and in my view will do little if anything to stop gun crime/terrorist attacks

Thank you for that answer Dave, most illuminating, and as I suspected, shows the current position to be a total mess!!

quite agree mate, I suspect it will only become clearer when someone is taken to court in breach of the (supposed) new regs, whatever happens we will be the losers ultimately and people will have to be very carefull at events from now on because I reckon the busys will be around many events checking the situation on deacts out

also some EU members have thrown out the draft copy and are not going to agree with it. so it wont go through the EU
second as there is no way to police the new rules assuming they are passed next week in our parliament therefore they may be illegal as they originated from Europe. Not my words just what I have read.
What ever the situation its a shambles with NO real understanding of what is going to happen in the future and too may legal 'holes' to fall through.
just my 10 peneth
graham

quite agree graham, its a lash up from a government who want in my view the public to have no access to ANY weapons. I would suspect it will be extended to cover blank firers at some point in the future. So far the western scene has escaped free from over regulation but only a question of time till that area is hit I think.

Crazy Feldgendarme wrote:here is one side of the argument

Some commentary from Steven Kendrick of the DGCA:


"On April 8th, the new EU-wide deactivation standard comes into force and
applies to any deac "placed on the market", this technically means the deac
has to be updated to the new specification.

However this requirement hasn't been transposed into UK legislation, or any
EU member state's legislation for that matter, so there's no method of
enforcing it until they do.

Moreover, the new specification suffers from a number of serious flaws and
is basically unworkable for certain guns and even worse, even if you wanted
to update your deac to the new specification, it's not clear that it would
be technically feasible to apply it to an already deactivated firearm.

The good news is that the European Parliament has proposed a raft of
amendments to the proposed amendment to the Firearms Directive:

These do two things - the first is that they scrap all the stupid proposals
made by the European Commission in relation to deactivated firearms. The
requirement for museums to deactivate their collections of Category A
weapons would be removed. The requirement for deactivated Category A
weapons to be banned would also be removed. The requirement for other
categories of deactivated firearms to go under Category C (subject to
declaration - i.e. registration) would be gone.

The second thing the amendments do is unscramble the botched deactivation
regulations made under the existing Directive and better yet retroactively
allow for the recognition of older deactivation standards used by member
states, which means you wouldn't have to "update" your deacs to transfer
them. (However I think it's unlikely pre-89 deacs in the UK would be
recognised and the pre-95 standard might not be).

It's hard to say if all of the amendments will be approved but the Council
of Ministers appears to generally support them as well so I'm reasonably
sure they will happen. Certainly doesn't hurt to write to your MEPs and ask
them to support the amendments though.

So to summarise, from April 8th and for some months after, the whole
situation is going to be a total mess and hopefully it will then be sorted
out when the amendments to the Directive come into force.

The downside will be that the EU-wide deactivation standard is stricter; the
upside is that it is EU-wide, so that will make it next to impossible for
BIS and the Home Office to argue against imports into the UK. Or in fact
exports from the UK, the Proof Houses could well see an uptick in business!".

While the E.U. standards do go further, and appear stricter, they are to a poorer and generally lower standard of deactivation than the U.K. (Proof Houses and NABIS, firearms forensics laboratory.) The new E.U. spec deacs cannot be examined or scrutinized, because in addition to ALL moving parts being welded, they require magazines to be welded. This is why Proof Houses initially refused to authenticate new deacs. If you can't examine it, how can you verify level of work carried out ? This is how the illegal expansion blank fire AK's got through, because they had welded magazines, making them look deactivated. You can't deactivate something twice, de-deactivate, to re-deactivate to a poorer E.U. standard. This is why we don't export much to E.U., and most of our industry has gone !! The U.K. thriving deac trade would be wiped out, just to allow E.U. poorer standard deacs to flood market. Who would want something crudely butchered though ?