Comments - For and against.
Gripes, Praise, What could be done better, what was done well...... You know -
For me - It was Paul Heddle's first foray into this. He worked damned hard and knows some things were lacking. For me it felt good overall - Yes the wheel came off once or twice but between the re-enactors, the Staff and Paul -it kept getting put back on and there were some magic moments.
It's all yours gents.
THETFORD AFTER EVENT "DEBRIEF"
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wolfsangel
- Posts: 652
- Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:37 pm
- Location: bristol
Hope the chap that dismounted from a Jeepin a non-prescriberd manner on Sunday is OK.
good stuff, there was plenty, bad stuff there was plenty. I think it lost the 2living history" element early on, but it seemed to me everyone accepted that and got on with making a weekend of it.
One complaint I heard a lot about was a lack of maps, I think this would have helped with the overall co-ordination between opposing forces. (This is what I think made the event descend to blatt fest on occasion rather than living history).
Also - and I do not mean this in a bad way - I think the main man was a bit inflexible at times eg access to cars when the 36 hour tactical got called off on sat night - a lot of un-happy people.
As a final whinge, I really threw my toys out of the pram on saturday after lying in cover for two hours and eventually taking out a bunch of americans as they tried to encircle me (plus 1 other) only too see them back in hte battle about 30 secodns later
good stuff, there was plenty, bad stuff there was plenty. I think it lost the 2living history" element early on, but it seemed to me everyone accepted that and got on with making a weekend of it.
One complaint I heard a lot about was a lack of maps, I think this would have helped with the overall co-ordination between opposing forces. (This is what I think made the event descend to blatt fest on occasion rather than living history).
Also - and I do not mean this in a bad way - I think the main man was a bit inflexible at times eg access to cars when the 36 hour tactical got called off on sat night - a lot of un-happy people.
As a final whinge, I really threw my toys out of the pram on saturday after lying in cover for two hours and eventually taking out a bunch of americans as they tried to encircle me (plus 1 other) only too see them back in hte battle about 30 secodns later
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steve kellher
- Posts: 358
- Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 5:21 pm
- Location: uk
Good Location, Liveing history side of it was not going on with a lot of people, nice of the brits to be able to pop up the shops in cars from there spot, also germans unloading kit on our location in modern veichles when we had to carry tons of heavy kit from car park, apart from that and the lac of maps/confushion, it was a great location and good laugh, Thanks Paul and Others for your hard work.
Also have to add that i had a day off work to get to the event for it to start at 6:15 {as siad in warning orders} nothing happend untill we moved to our positions at 9ish via a mile walk diversion, because of maps and no help from anyone, if anything we should of camped up at hangers untill the morning,as for no beer, well im glad i had a hip flask of vodka left over from a previous event, i dont drink as a rule, but it did help with the bordom at night and cold.
Also have to add that i had a day off work to get to the event for it to start at 6:15 {as siad in warning orders} nothing happend untill we moved to our positions at 9ish via a mile walk diversion, because of maps and no help from anyone, if anything we should of camped up at hangers untill the morning,as for no beer, well im glad i had a hip flask of vodka left over from a previous event, i dont drink as a rule, but it did help with the bordom at night and cold.
Last edited by steve kellher on Mon Apr 30, 2007 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Have you got dental insurance
Great location ,great bunch of guys.Lack of maps a real problem and the continued re-arrangement of scenarios was a bit of a pain in the arse at times.Having injured myself(through sheer stupidity) on Friday night,it made the weekend tough going.Good to meet all the guys from AIM,Ranger Reenactment,N44,KP1,Tiger1 FJR2 etc etc etc,especially the following Manny,Dave Durden,Tim,Bee,Minty and the boys,Steve and co,and finally it was nice to put a name to a face(however ugly it may be) Mr Dalby 
For a first time,for Paul Heddle,it was a good debut.The forest battle with the Rangers on Saturday was excellent and the advance and fighting retreat on Sunday against the British positions(despite a few cock-ups) went well too.Can't wait to see the photos.A bit more work needs to be done on cross-group communications,on the Axis side,to make us a more cohesive force
Enjoyed it and will be back for more......
For a first time,for Paul Heddle,it was a good debut.The forest battle with the Rangers on Saturday was excellent and the advance and fighting retreat on Sunday against the British positions(despite a few cock-ups) went well too.Can't wait to see the photos.A bit more work needs to be done on cross-group communications,on the Axis side,to make us a more cohesive force
Enjoyed it and will be back for more......
Der Dachs mit Dudelsack
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FJ 39-45
Fallschirmjaeger Ang'
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FJ 39-45
Fallschirmjaeger Ang'
Comments
Plus points : An excellent site , some parts very similar to the actual historical event and gave me a real sense of empathy with those chaps .
Bad points :
No maps , or if there were maps later on they were not in the hands of people that needed them .
Radios , it seems radios were also not issued to all groups and some brit groups had no coms with their US allies .
Radios also allowed both sides to listen to each others traffic .
Water , we understood there would be stand pipes at our CP , it turned out there was a pipe at the hangers but some word went out it was contaminated .
In conditions we experienced this was not funny .
Meetings/ debriefs : I missed one of these as I was totally unaware it was supposed to happen , I think a few others missed others I was at .
lack of communication .
Lastly this is not a criticism but an observation as both PD and Spence were spot on however Friday night we really did need a Axis commander onsite as lots of chaps were arriving early there were bods everywhere and no-one knew if we were pitching up around the hangers or moving out into the field .
I think this was too much for Paul Heddle to cope with both allied and Axis groups
Taken as a quote from the Hertgen thread " Start Time of scenario Friday The event starts at 6.30pm "
As far as hit taking goes I had no real problem with this as all the chaps I went for dropped ok and I only had one " I shot you first" BS
As matty says I hope the guy involved with the jeep incident is ok .
Plus points : An excellent site , some parts very similar to the actual historical event and gave me a real sense of empathy with those chaps .
Bad points :
No maps , or if there were maps later on they were not in the hands of people that needed them .
Radios , it seems radios were also not issued to all groups and some brit groups had no coms with their US allies .
Radios also allowed both sides to listen to each others traffic .
Water , we understood there would be stand pipes at our CP , it turned out there was a pipe at the hangers but some word went out it was contaminated .
In conditions we experienced this was not funny .
Meetings/ debriefs : I missed one of these as I was totally unaware it was supposed to happen , I think a few others missed others I was at .
lack of communication .
Lastly this is not a criticism but an observation as both PD and Spence were spot on however Friday night we really did need a Axis commander onsite as lots of chaps were arriving early there were bods everywhere and no-one knew if we were pitching up around the hangers or moving out into the field .
I think this was too much for Paul Heddle to cope with both allied and Axis groups
Taken as a quote from the Hertgen thread " Start Time of scenario Friday The event starts at 6.30pm "
As far as hit taking goes I had no real problem with this as all the chaps I went for dropped ok and I only had one " I shot you first" BS
As matty says I hope the guy involved with the jeep incident is ok .
Some thoughts (with the posters permission ) from one of the US chaps from the "other place"........
As far as i see it, virtually the whole weekend, any help that was offered on the part of the 28th was pushed aside,
But ya know, at the end of the day, what part did the 28th play in the Hurtgen? If this weekends being pushed to the background is anything to go by then clearly not a lot...........
Time and time again, A.I.M and TFH representing the 28th (who had one of the worst casualty ratings of the battle for the Hurtgen forest) were having to find and pick our own fights. On rare occasions were we included into objectives.
And regardless, Bilko, perhaps the reason you were so super amazing saints of clearing the land for us to seemingly wander through, was because, and i quote straight from the Germans, we were "The only Allied unit all weekend who took their hits properly and gracefully".
From what i saw this weekend there was a LOT of dishonesty when it came to people taking their hits, and without honesty these events just do not work.
TFH and A.I.M took the opportunity to use it as a time to learn, not to play soldier. We, to the best of our abilities, avoided putting ourselves into situations that realistically we simply would not have done, not if it were live rounds flying our way. Men jumping to their feet and running like Rambo across an open field in the face of MG42 fire and subsequently expecting to be hailed a hero didn't happen with our unit, not because we were scared, or couldn't be arsed to fight, but because realistically only the ones with a f**king screw loose would have done that for real.
Out of this whole weekend i think the real respect lies with the German units, who CLEARLY knew what they were doing. Some of the tactics they showed were excellent and their diversionary tactics were outstanding.
In short, for me personally, this weekend was one major f**k up from Square one. A) not enough maps, B) we were given what can only be described as wank directions to our first CP, C) apart from when it didn't include kit, little transport was offered to our unit D) It, to us at least, seemed to be a Ranger party and nothing else E) We were given contaminated water in the hottest April in history! F) there were clearly serious mis-understandings about where people could and could not go, as well as to the locations of other groups. and G) The battles really, in no way represented what took place for real in the Hurtgen and for that reason no lessons were learnt on the battle and it became a Blat fest, we might as well have all gone paintballing. The Hurtgen was backwards and forwards day in day out through November, ground was being repeatly gained and lost, yet this weekend it always seemed to the Allies on the push?
But still, despite the odds, we made it a fun weekend for ourselves and even when the Ranger groups plus that small 8th Inf unit had fucked off elsewhere without letting us know the Details, we used the time to pit our whits againsts one another, making the most of what was excellent terrain. END
As far as i see it, virtually the whole weekend, any help that was offered on the part of the 28th was pushed aside,
But ya know, at the end of the day, what part did the 28th play in the Hurtgen? If this weekends being pushed to the background is anything to go by then clearly not a lot...........
Time and time again, A.I.M and TFH representing the 28th (who had one of the worst casualty ratings of the battle for the Hurtgen forest) were having to find and pick our own fights. On rare occasions were we included into objectives.
And regardless, Bilko, perhaps the reason you were so super amazing saints of clearing the land for us to seemingly wander through, was because, and i quote straight from the Germans, we were "The only Allied unit all weekend who took their hits properly and gracefully".
From what i saw this weekend there was a LOT of dishonesty when it came to people taking their hits, and without honesty these events just do not work.
TFH and A.I.M took the opportunity to use it as a time to learn, not to play soldier. We, to the best of our abilities, avoided putting ourselves into situations that realistically we simply would not have done, not if it were live rounds flying our way. Men jumping to their feet and running like Rambo across an open field in the face of MG42 fire and subsequently expecting to be hailed a hero didn't happen with our unit, not because we were scared, or couldn't be arsed to fight, but because realistically only the ones with a f**king screw loose would have done that for real.
Out of this whole weekend i think the real respect lies with the German units, who CLEARLY knew what they were doing. Some of the tactics they showed were excellent and their diversionary tactics were outstanding.
In short, for me personally, this weekend was one major f**k up from Square one. A) not enough maps, B) we were given what can only be described as wank directions to our first CP, C) apart from when it didn't include kit, little transport was offered to our unit D) It, to us at least, seemed to be a Ranger party and nothing else E) We were given contaminated water in the hottest April in history! F) there were clearly serious mis-understandings about where people could and could not go, as well as to the locations of other groups. and G) The battles really, in no way represented what took place for real in the Hurtgen and for that reason no lessons were learnt on the battle and it became a Blat fest, we might as well have all gone paintballing. The Hurtgen was backwards and forwards day in day out through November, ground was being repeatly gained and lost, yet this weekend it always seemed to the Allies on the push?
But still, despite the odds, we made it a fun weekend for ourselves and even when the Ranger groups plus that small 8th Inf unit had fucked off elsewhere without letting us know the Details, we used the time to pit our whits againsts one another, making the most of what was excellent terrain. END
Well, overall I thought it was a good weekend - it definitely had some moments and thats all I ever expect from a weekend.
Nitty gritty of it was that I had a minor disaster on the Friday when the car taking me fried its gearbox so we had to get a hire car, which made me late not arriving til early ours Saturday. So my apologies to Axis troops that were leaderless.
Maps were a real killer, commanding over terrain that I've never seen with radio contact to people and groups I didn't know was nigh on impossible. I was working to orders up to about 11:00 then received nothing. What would you do - go off scenario or hold tight and wait.
I chose to wait and that was my decision - when it became aparrent what had gone on, PD was on net and the ball began to roll again. Thanks Paul.
Water was the other real issue as units and individuals that were KIA returning to CP were refusing to reform as they were dehydrated already.
I couldn't blame them.
Artillery was a new concept and took a bit of getting used to for all involved. Once we were over that hurdle it worked and worked really well as the Tommies found out to there cost.
I have to say at this point that I'm proud of the German forces involved, we worked together, mucked in, leaders from other groups were respected and there orders adhered to - this I think gave us an edge over the Allies. We appeared to be ego free, they still don't seem to work as one like us. At least its historically correct I suppose.
No denying it was abitious - somethings worked, some never - I for one think for a first stab, and considering it had no maps, intermittent radio, water problems, missing commander and a RTA - Paul is lucky not to have had a heart attack as well. He deserves a round of applause.
I would change a few things about it next time round and simplify the scenario's and orders. Also let Axis and Allied top commanders talk to each other to sort out niggles as we do at Pippingford. As an aside I wouldn't call it Living History, because it isn't - I don't mean this in a look down my nose way. It's just the nature of this beast has portaloos, DS and quads - I think its a new ball game and WW2 battle simulation is nearer.
Nitty gritty of it was that I had a minor disaster on the Friday when the car taking me fried its gearbox so we had to get a hire car, which made me late not arriving til early ours Saturday. So my apologies to Axis troops that were leaderless.
Maps were a real killer, commanding over terrain that I've never seen with radio contact to people and groups I didn't know was nigh on impossible. I was working to orders up to about 11:00 then received nothing. What would you do - go off scenario or hold tight and wait.
I chose to wait and that was my decision - when it became aparrent what had gone on, PD was on net and the ball began to roll again. Thanks Paul.
Water was the other real issue as units and individuals that were KIA returning to CP were refusing to reform as they were dehydrated already.
I couldn't blame them.
Artillery was a new concept and took a bit of getting used to for all involved. Once we were over that hurdle it worked and worked really well as the Tommies found out to there cost.
I have to say at this point that I'm proud of the German forces involved, we worked together, mucked in, leaders from other groups were respected and there orders adhered to - this I think gave us an edge over the Allies. We appeared to be ego free, they still don't seem to work as one like us. At least its historically correct I suppose.
No denying it was abitious - somethings worked, some never - I for one think for a first stab, and considering it had no maps, intermittent radio, water problems, missing commander and a RTA - Paul is lucky not to have had a heart attack as well. He deserves a round of applause.
I would change a few things about it next time round and simplify the scenario's and orders. Also let Axis and Allied top commanders talk to each other to sort out niggles as we do at Pippingford. As an aside I wouldn't call it Living History, because it isn't - I don't mean this in a look down my nose way. It's just the nature of this beast has portaloos, DS and quads - I think its a new ball game and WW2 battle simulation is nearer.
We in the HG had a great time, the location was one of the best sites Ive been to and what with the type of trees and stuff you could loose yourself in the thought that you were really there!
Becoause of the open invite i kinda came to the concluesion it was never going to be a real Living History event and therefore i was not too disapointed at some minor things that went on.
I really liked the idear of the pyro air stikes mortas ect ect.... i think that really worked well although the modern quads and bundie camo kinda took the edge off, but it was something different and think that it could be developed into a great addition in battles!
These types of events are difficult to get right and i think that the people who put it on should be thanked for their efforts.... I see over the pond the US groups are in a tizwaz nice to see we on the axis side got on a little better
I think this event is the start of a new bread of battle and it was good to see some new ideas which is really good news.
By the way who killed the two tommies the HG captured
Becoause of the open invite i kinda came to the concluesion it was never going to be a real Living History event and therefore i was not too disapointed at some minor things that went on.
I really liked the idear of the pyro air stikes mortas ect ect.... i think that really worked well although the modern quads and bundie camo kinda took the edge off, but it was something different and think that it could be developed into a great addition in battles!
These types of events are difficult to get right and i think that the people who put it on should be thanked for their efforts.... I see over the pond the US groups are in a tizwaz nice to see we on the axis side got on a little better
I think this event is the start of a new bread of battle and it was good to see some new ideas which is really good news.
By the way who killed the two tommies the HG captured
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steve kellher
- Posts: 358
- Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 5:21 pm
- Location: uk
yet this weekend it always seemed to the Allies on the push?
It might seem that way, but i for sure can say that tiger 1 and kgk moved back and forth none stop fighting from a+b+c+d+E+f etc, Because of the f@@k up, groups got lost and turned up late,a lot of confusion as to who and what is going on, to many counter orders from people not really knowing the situation around them {gave a realistic feel to it} KP1 attacked time after time, i think every one got stuck in, it was more a meet and greet blat fest, the area was very large and it knackerd a lot of people out before any contacting happend
It might seem that way, but i for sure can say that tiger 1 and kgk moved back and forth none stop fighting from a+b+c+d+E+f etc, Because of the f@@k up, groups got lost and turned up late,a lot of confusion as to who and what is going on, to many counter orders from people not really knowing the situation around them {gave a realistic feel to it} KP1 attacked time after time, i think every one got stuck in, it was more a meet and greet blat fest, the area was very large and it knackerd a lot of people out before any contacting happend
Have you got dental insurance
In all the plus out weighed the minus........... my only grip the water situation, it should have been checked out before anything went ahead, after all serious dehydration can be a killer.
that aside, i had a fantastic time & i am NEVER going to wear brand new boots again to one of these do's ! ( any one have any spare feet ? )
Lovley to meet up with everyone & put faces to avatars, & thanks to Bee for the spanking that made my day.
Nice to meet PD at last & he was right ! he has no horns nor pointy tail, but i've not ruled out a 666 tatoo under the hairline just yet
cheers all ...... Father Ted
that aside, i had a fantastic time & i am NEVER going to wear brand new boots again to one of these do's ! ( any one have any spare feet ? )
Lovley to meet up with everyone & put faces to avatars, & thanks to Bee for the spanking
that made my day.Nice to meet PD at last & he was right ! he has no horns nor pointy tail, but i've not ruled out a 666 tatoo under the hairline just yet
cheers all ...... Father Ted
Did it coincide with a live MP44?Salerno43 wrote:I'm sure I saw PD with the horn at one point?sonderverband288 wrote:
Nice to meet PD at last & he was right ! he has no horns nor pointy tail, but i've not ruled out a 666 tatoo under the hairline just yet
cheers all ...... Father Ted
Feldgendarmerie Trupp 82 - http://www.feldgendarmerie.co.uk
Panzer Nachrichten Abt. 38 - http://www.funker.co.uk
Hauptverbandplatz 82 - http://www.hvp82.co.uk
LHA members
Panzer Nachrichten Abt. 38 - http://www.funker.co.uk
Hauptverbandplatz 82 - http://www.hvp82.co.uk
LHA members
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Hoffman Grink
thetford battle weekend
thetford battle weekend
i would like to give the following comments starting with the negative
1 lack of water ie clean
2 lack of transport to the site we were in
3 lack of maps one map between groups
4 lack of discussion with allied groupings should have met with them
5 to much changing of plans
now for the positive
1 great weekend as we german groups worked well together
2 paul headle did well for his first attempt and now has a better understanding of what it involves
3 ground was terriffic
4 people were great , the german lads shared everything
5 the royal norfolks " hi luke " were fantastic as were the paratroopers and hi geoff para you bollocks
6 pd came on board and started to do what he does best take control as did manny trainer a real decent lad
i would also like to say thanks to the following in no particular order , if i neglect any one please pm me
to all the lads in kgk , francie , simon , jock , ted , karl , coli that made this very memorable we had a real gas in more ways than one ,the craic was great and the slagging mega , just look at the kgk site regarding the story of theford which all the lads are adding too . i nearly pissed myself laughing at it . my version is yet to come .
grateful thanks to TED AND JOCK they picked us up and buggered us ,ooooooooooooooooooooopppppppppppppps i mean drove us to the site never whinging about the smell of francies toxis fumes , apparently he smelt like a rape seed field lolllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll .
also a big thank you to STEVE KELLHER , steve you made us feel welcome helped us all the way , gave us food , farted on us abused us and called me every name under the sun , but steve i appreciate your komradeship and will never forget your help . i owe you one , also hi to the lads with steve under the canvass .
BIG KEV ROBERTS , TREVOR , STEVE MARSHALL , SEAN STAUNTON , MATT , HELGA , MADDOG, GEOFF PARA , OBLIO , ALL THESE GUYS MADE THE TIME SPECIAL ,
MANNY TRAINOR a decent bloke 100% and we hope to see you here soon in our training weekend event in june .
PAUL DALBY the devil himself , you know the score need say nothing more thank you ,
to john oxlade and steve thanks for the weapons and also to harry the security guy looked after us transporting us
PAUL HEADLE , we appreciate your hard work and NICK HALLING excellent photos
from all at ss kampfgruppe knittel
i would like to give the following comments starting with the negative
1 lack of water ie clean
2 lack of transport to the site we were in
3 lack of maps one map between groups
4 lack of discussion with allied groupings should have met with them
5 to much changing of plans
now for the positive
1 great weekend as we german groups worked well together
2 paul headle did well for his first attempt and now has a better understanding of what it involves
3 ground was terriffic
4 people were great , the german lads shared everything
5 the royal norfolks " hi luke " were fantastic as were the paratroopers and hi geoff para you bollocks
6 pd came on board and started to do what he does best take control as did manny trainer a real decent lad
i would also like to say thanks to the following in no particular order , if i neglect any one please pm me
to all the lads in kgk , francie , simon , jock , ted , karl , coli that made this very memorable we had a real gas in more ways than one ,the craic was great and the slagging mega , just look at the kgk site regarding the story of theford which all the lads are adding too . i nearly pissed myself laughing at it . my version is yet to come .
grateful thanks to TED AND JOCK they picked us up and buggered us ,ooooooooooooooooooooopppppppppppppps i mean drove us to the site never whinging about the smell of francies toxis fumes , apparently he smelt like a rape seed field lolllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
.also a big thank you to STEVE KELLHER , steve you made us feel welcome helped us all the way , gave us food , farted on us abused us and called me every name under the sun , but steve i appreciate your komradeship and will never forget your help . i owe you one , also hi to the lads with steve under the canvass .
BIG KEV ROBERTS , TREVOR , STEVE MARSHALL , SEAN STAUNTON , MATT , HELGA , MADDOG, GEOFF PARA , OBLIO , ALL THESE GUYS MADE THE TIME SPECIAL ,
MANNY TRAINOR a decent bloke 100% and we hope to see you here soon in our training weekend event in june .
PAUL DALBY the devil himself , you know the score need say nothing more thank you ,
to john oxlade and steve thanks for the weapons and also to harry the security guy looked after us transporting us
PAUL HEADLE , we appreciate your hard work and NICK HALLING excellent photos
from all at ss kampfgruppe knittel