got my vote for the same reasonHelmut Schegel wrote:The Mk IV gets my vote, the workhorse of the Panzerwaffe, in service throughout the war, reliable and deadly.
Best Panzer
Re: Best Panzer
And that boys is how you take a penalty.
Re: Best Panzer
Whilst I agree that if resources had been concentrated on PzIV production then the army would have had many more good tanks at its disposal, the Panther is for me a better all-round tank, its 75mm of a much harder hitting power than that on the Pz IV. No accident that the French ran a division of Panthers after the war (they had first dibs so to speak) and the Pz IVs went to the Middle East.
Panther wins over Pz IV because:
1) Better Armament
2) Better ballistic shape to deflect incoming
3) Lower ground pressure due to wider tracks
4) Capable of being upgunned, whereas PzIV was by then at its limit.
Good thread though and interesting to see what people think. Don't include things like Marders in this myself as limited traverse and poor crew protection...
Panther wins over Pz IV because:
1) Better Armament
2) Better ballistic shape to deflect incoming
3) Lower ground pressure due to wider tracks
4) Capable of being upgunned, whereas PzIV was by then at its limit.
Good thread though and interesting to see what people think. Don't include things like Marders in this myself as limited traverse and poor crew protection...
David
Stimme aus dem sumpf...
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Stimme aus dem sumpf...
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- The Sorrow
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Re: Best Panzer
Do any of you guys own any of these???
"Man fears the darkness, and so he scrapes away at the edges of it with fire." - Rei Ayanami (Neon Genesis Evangelion)
http://www.frundsberg.co.uk
http://www.frundsberg.co.uk
Re: Best Panzer
The Tiger
Iconic, saw service on all fronts,not perfect but
excellent fire power
,excellent protection
,adequate maneoverability
not unlike a chieftain
Panther good
MK 4 too small in my opinion
King Tiger never enough to go around and a bit on the heavy side
Iconic, saw service on all fronts,not perfect but
excellent fire power
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
not unlike a chieftain
Panther good
MK 4 too small in my opinion
King Tiger never enough to go around and a bit on the heavy side
Re: Best Panzer
No. But I have free access to a Panzer 38 (t), Swiss Hetzer, T34/85 and King Tiger (and many others)because I am a member of the swiss army museum society.The Sorrow wrote:Do any of you guys own any of these???
![Mr. Green :mrgreen:](./images/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif)
Ci vediamo
Daniela
Dove c'e' da Rievocare noi Rievochiamo - Dove c'e' da Ricostruire noi Ricostruiamo
![Image](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v83/missyd/SAFforumbanner.jpg)
Daniela
Dove c'e' da Rievocare noi Rievochiamo - Dove c'e' da Ricostruire noi Ricostruiamo
![Image](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v83/missyd/SAFforumbanner.jpg)
Re: Best Panzer
Like Daniella I have free access to a number of Military Vehicles........
People don't believe me when I try to describe it so I'll let your ead what someone else who recently visited said...
http://www.militarymodelling.com/news/a ... AN=132&v=1
![Mr. Green :mrgreen:](./images/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif)
People don't believe me when I try to describe it so I'll let your ead what someone else who recently visited said...
http://www.militarymodelling.com/news/a ... AN=132&v=1
Re: Best Panzer
Spoke with the owner of the WC collection a few weeks ago ...
![Mr. Green :mrgreen:](./images/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif)
![Mr. Green :mrgreen:](./images/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif)
![Mr. Green :mrgreen:](./images/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif)
![Mr. Green :mrgreen:](./images/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif)
Ci vediamo
Daniela
Dove c'e' da Rievocare noi Rievochiamo - Dove c'e' da Ricostruire noi Ricostruiamo
![Image](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v83/missyd/SAFforumbanner.jpg)
Daniela
Dove c'e' da Rievocare noi Rievochiamo - Dove c'e' da Ricostruire noi Ricostruiamo
![Image](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v83/missyd/SAFforumbanner.jpg)
- The Sorrow
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- Location: Rochester, Kent
- Contact:
Re: Best Panzer
Cool ![Cool 8)](./images/smilies/icon_cool.gif)
![Cool 8)](./images/smilies/icon_cool.gif)
"Man fears the darkness, and so he scrapes away at the edges of it with fire." - Rei Ayanami (Neon Genesis Evangelion)
http://www.frundsberg.co.uk
http://www.frundsberg.co.uk
Re: Best Panzer
Panzer IV. I like Tigers and King Tigers, but I just can't get over the design of the P IV.
"He was a fighter in every way, he lived and breathed action"
![Image](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/Amy_Van_doren/joe_temp/wolfie-3.jpg)
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Re: Best Panzer
The sorrow wrote
missyd wrote
Like the Good Fwbl Grinch and Daniella I have free access to lots of nice Military Vehicles ,some of them are very rare .Do any of you guys own any of these???
missyd wrote
Why would you want to speak with some one who collects Water closets (WC)?Spoke with the owner of the WC collection a few weeks ago ...![]()
![]()
![]()
![Image](http://www.wwiireenacting.co.uk/forum/download/file.php?avatar=5238_1212911477.gif)
![Image](http://www.gaissmair.net/mayer.jpg)
![Image](http://www.gaissmair.net/renz.jpg)
![Image](http://www.gaissmair.net/schreiber.jpg)
![Image](http://www.gaissmair.net/degen.jpg)
Re: Best Panzer
Panzer IV gets my vote. Panther and Tiger were too fragile for the abuse they got (and lets not even mention how underpowered the Tiger was as well!)
Major Richard Heidrich: "Why do you want to jump out of a perfectly good aeroplane?"
Willi Schmidt: "When the Luftwaffe builds a perfectly good aeroplane, Sir, I shan't need to"
Willi Schmidt: "When the Luftwaffe builds a perfectly good aeroplane, Sir, I shan't need to"
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Re: Best Panzer
Panzer IV without doubt. Very simple design and easily produced on-mass. Limitation was it's weaker 75mm cannon. If they had concentrated on developing and evolving the design of this vehicle would they have come up with a suitable machine that could have been mass produced and dominated the battlefields?
Tigers, Panthers, King Tigers all excellent tanks in their own individual rights but with serious design flaws - the over complicated torsion bar suspension, interlocking wheels, good but underpowered engines that barely coped with the vehicle weight and transmissions that failed, poor access for general maintenance that required the whole turret to be removed (to replace the transmission) etc. This coupled with the overall weights made them unsuitable for the current transport system (railways) and they had a tendency to collapse the smaller bridges which in turn leads to major detours or more work for the suffering pioneers, generally under shellfire.
Mark IV gets my vote with the Panther coming a very close 2nd. Just imagine waht could have been if the war lasted longer and they managed to iron out all the problems with production (other than allied bombings) and reliability.
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)
Tigers, Panthers, King Tigers all excellent tanks in their own individual rights but with serious design flaws - the over complicated torsion bar suspension, interlocking wheels, good but underpowered engines that barely coped with the vehicle weight and transmissions that failed, poor access for general maintenance that required the whole turret to be removed (to replace the transmission) etc. This coupled with the overall weights made them unsuitable for the current transport system (railways) and they had a tendency to collapse the smaller bridges which in turn leads to major detours or more work for the suffering pioneers, generally under shellfire.
Mark IV gets my vote with the Panther coming a very close 2nd. Just imagine waht could have been if the war lasted longer and they managed to iron out all the problems with production (other than allied bombings) and reliability.
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Re: Best Panzer
Best tank? They usually work better with wheels...
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)
David
Stimme aus dem sumpf...
STURMPANZER ABTEILUNG
Stimme aus dem sumpf...
STURMPANZER ABTEILUNG