Norwegian SS Bodies Found

[Franz repper]

Ok here is a Bit more on the subject http://www.aftenposten.no/webtv/?id=11168&cat=22

[Cassius]

I noticed that someone blamed Adolph Hitler for the fact that some German troops were abandoned, somewhere?

Do such critics think that Hitler was a God, hovering in the sky over thousand of battlefields simultaneously, dealing with 700 division sized ground combat units (and also all the units of the Luftwaffe and Kriegemarine?), several hundred schools and training facilities for each service of the Wehrmacht, over 2,000 staffs and HQs, ...I could go on with several pages of this, ad infinitum? And did this God issue every bad order that was given. Were no German Army generals to blame for anything?

How can even the most ignorant person available imagine such infinite and precise, micro-management of a continuum, 24-7, for years?

The US armed forces,one of the most micro managed conglomerates on earth, has been trying to micromange even a few of its units, simultaneously, for decades. They have failed because even with tons of the most sophisticated, "high tech" computers and communications equipment it is still impossible! Have the "Hitler as God" denizens ever tried to manage (Lead) even one combat unit by radio? Modern radio? Not what the Germans had 60-70 years ago?

BTW, I am still looking for detailed info on that 100-man Norwegian unit.
A professional soldier should go to the battle site and try to reconstruct, on paper, the fortifications and main areas of combat around the Norwegian "hedgehog." For example, he could determine with metal detectors where the most ordnance was expended and what type. Any over-grown shell holes could be analyzed for incoming direction and caliber. Then the range of that particular weapon could be back-azimuthed and the firing position discovered, by cross comparing weapon range, to Soviet doctrine and the availability of reverse slopes etc. The types of artillery or mortar rounds expended by a Soviet units tell us which units might be armed with such weapons. For example a Soviet company would be using mortars for support, not 152mm howitzers.
So much could be done to answer such questions objectively. But all we read is a few facts salted with propaganda such as: " The Monster Hitler defacto ordered that company to be murdered by the Soviets, " or some similar rot.
Back to Battlefield Archaeology, Forensics and Man-tracking:
100 dead men implies a unit of at least 300 men unless:
-there are signs of murder after surrender
-Or no signs of other mutually supporting hedgehogs in the area
-Or A boot print positively identified as Hitlers and in the vicinity of an obvious UFO landing site.

[Peiper]

Greetings kameraden
Intresting thread gents, it is in my opinion hypocritical that the
newspaper called "The Scotsman" branded these men traitors,
its strange that these journalists haven't wrote how these men
were killed, basically the bottom line is these men were soldiers
who fought and died bravely what ever their cause and basically
in my opinion should be given some respect as we would expect
our own Allied graves to be given which have been found.
It seems obvious in a mass grave such as this that these men were
no doubt captured and executed by the Soviet Army no less.
There was a similar story some time back where there was a mass
grave of SS soldiers found, the pictures i saw plainly showed the
bullet holes in the skulls no doubt done with a Nagan, these new findings
will probably show the same.
Regards Peiper.

[andy d]

Greetings kameraden
Intresting thread gents, it is in my opinion hypocritical that the
so called newspaper, "The Scotsman" branded these men traitors,
its strange that these journalists haven't wrote how these men
were killed, basically the bottom line is these men were soldiers
who fought and died bravely what ever their cause and basically
in my opinion should be given some respect as we would expect
our own Allied graves to be given which have been found.
It seems obvious in a mass grave such as this that these men were
no doubt captured and executed by the Soviet Army no less.
There was a similar story some time back where there was a mass
grave of SS soldiers found, the pictures i saw plainly showed the
bullet holes in the skulls no doubt done with a Nagan, these new findings
will probably show the same.
Regards Peiper.

JP,
your view on the newspaper is shared by both John Wilson and myself.
It is so disappointing to see many of the broadsheets resort to this style of tabloid sensationalist journalism.
In bygone days, these were the papers that challenged people's views, and in many cases, questioned the government of the day. Nowadays, they seem more interested in cheap tawdry headlines.
Maybe I am just getting old and cynical.

[Cassius]

Herr Peiper,

We agree Kameraden.

I would like to visit there and see if they were murdered.

That story about what happened to them and what happened there will not be forgotten by me.

If you run across any facts, please let me know.

Thanks,
Cassius

[Cassius]

Is there a topographical map of the area where the bodies were found?

If there any military importance to the area?

Could they have been transported to the site, like at Katyn?

I know of similar sites that the media would not mention because it implicated the Soviets in mass murder.

I wonder why the propagandists decided to run this story.

Cassius

[Peiper]

I think this media group decided to run this story because of the oncoming
D-Day celebrations in June, basically as said previously this media-group resorted
to sensationalism which is often the case when the word SS is mentioned.
In a nutshell "B-S" sells unfortunately and it seems this tabloid group have resorted
to this type of hype to sell more newspapers.
Regards Peiper.

[Franz repper]

Heer Peiper and Cassius The Soldiers in the News paper ( Comic more like ) were in fact members of the Skijägerbataljon Norge those troops fought and died in the area that they were given . Now another fact that is over looked these Troops signed on to fight the Russians NOT the western allies .
This site is a long way from any towns that is why it was found like it is this was part of Finland! And the above troops were part of SS Nord that fought here in Finland

[Franz repper]

Here is a good link to a site http://www.frontkjemper.com/index_files ... elmann.htm

[Cassius]

Mr. Repper,

Thanks for the reference.

If anyone can refer me to one or more futher leads, I would appreciate it.

I am searching for answers to the following questions:

Has anyone mapped the site? The layout of the battlefield?

Intell on: Numbers and types of troops involved.? Any heavy weapons?

Was it a Laager or an actual site fortified to expel a Soviet attack?

What was the military situation? Were the Norge caught during a withdrawal? Resting at a base? etcettera... when the reds appeared?

The last reference given, mentioned that it was a fierce battle. What was the actual historic name of the battle and how does the author know that it was not a massacre of Norge SS by the reds?

Any Soviet unit indications? Weapons types?

Does anyone exactly know where the site is on the map? Karelia?
Elsewhere in Finland?

Could the battle or massacre have happened after the war?

Thanks,

Cassius

[Cassius]

My Musings from looking at the pictures?

The trenchline is in the typical German pattern, but it appears to be low on the hil?

"On the left the remains of a Russian soldier identified as Romanov Vasily Dmitreevich."
I wonder what unit.

"Below, remains of Russian casualties of the attack. "
They are grouped in a line. I wonder if they were collected there as corpses by the reds, or did they die from enfilade MG-42 fire?

It looks like archaeologists are at work there now?
I wonder if any of them are battlefield archaeologists.
If they did not draw in the locations of everything before they collected the skeletons for burial, then a lot of history may have been lost.

Can anyone on this site (militaria expert) tell anything from the photos of the debris found such as porcelain badges, etcettera?

Their are still numerous battlefields throughout the USSR where the dead , Russian and Axis alike , have not been buried.
After a big European media scandal in the 1990s, regarding former USSR battlefields covered with thousands of unburied skeletons, the USSR did bulldoze several large sites in the North and near Stalingrad.

It would be very interesting to visit some of those forgotten battlefields before they are all looted.

Cassius

[Cassius]

Herr Peiper

Do you remember where those photos of massacred SS troops and the report might be found?

Thanks,
Cassius