Vehicle Comms and Safety

[Hoffman Grink]

Prompted by the thread in Events about Pipp Park - and after working with SBG a couple of times this year - I am minded to bring up a subject that I feel is worth debating and reaching an agreement on.

There are lots of fine vehicles about on our German scene these days. We make more use of them than ever before. I have noticed some users/crew/owners wearing headsets and obviously communicating between commander and driver - I have seen some with nothing except a lot of shouting, pointing and kicking!!!!!

I have worked with SBG and on one occasion was handed a handset over the side of the 251 and was immediately able to speak with the driver! I have watched them set up their comms and I am mightily impressed.

This means ground troops can be informed of vehicle movement and vice versa. It means vehicles can move in a co-ordinated manner and it means that potentially everyone could be linked up to provide safe, professional movement around an area.........

We would be replicating how the Germans actually worked if we all adopted a common system. Using modern kit I feel is permissible as usually it's hidden in a vehicle but even for ground troops - I think this one instance of modern kit could be overlooked as its use far outweighs other considerations.

Now SBG use Clansman equipment which is now abundantly available. I don't know which unit(s) they use but I am sure someone will be helpful - PRC351 would be my first guess but they might mount the VRC353s in their wagons...... - But what I'm saying is for a few pounds more (alright we might be in three figures) The German Forces being re-enacted in the UK could have a very good, standard means of comms which would enhance both our capability on a display ground and increase safety at the same time.

I'm mooting that vehicle owners kick this off and adopt a standard communications system between all vehicles. What do you say folks? I'm also proposing that groups use their funds and buy at least one compatible usable set (and accessories) in order to be able to join the net when at events.........

The floor's open - pull it to bits if you want - but I hope those of you out there will either tell me you're already doing it or will talk amongst yourselves (on here if it's best) and come up with a workable solution.

[les hearn]

good idea

this probably would have helped when i reversed into andys ket at mereworth a few years back

but we could say i reenacted the verry common thing that happened in ww2 ..
no seriously a good idea.
not sure about using military wavelenths tho
are the clans still using military airwaves?

[daveslastsummer]

Very interested in this one Paul, we had discussed this earlier in the year and all we knew is that some groups were using british ex-army comms but that was about it.

We attended 3 events this year with our halftrack and i know how difficult it is to hear directions etc in the heat of a battle, add to this a very limited view (sdkfz 251) and you've got problems, especially when there are reenactors encroaching on the vehicle.

As a driver you are looking to your commander to be your extra set of eyes and take the vehicle safely into and out of the battle as smoothly as possible and here is where comms would prove

From a health and safety point of view i would go as far to say comms should be essential kit for Vehicles on the move, from a reenactors point of view comms would totally enhance battle coordination.

Would be useful if you could point me in the right direction and let me know what and where to purchase as we'll be after a set for our halftrack and 222.

shouting and kicking?, you left out slapping!

[Hoffman Grink]

Dave - would you like to add the following to your signature
Burt Bacharach's got Purple Curtains.

There is a site that sells all the Clansman kit - imaginatively called http://www.clansman-radios.co.uk/forsale.htm

Would be best to find out what SBG are using I think and build around that?


H (StuG) uses comms - as do Jon Phillips' crew (PzIII) - Don't know if it's only an intercom or whether they have transceivers. The idea can work - just needs people to talk.

[ssparatrooper]

Vehicle intercom kits are available and will set you back about £100 this will enable you to as a commander speak on an open channel via headsets handsets and boxes, but these will only work on 24 volt vehicles but it is not a radio.

If you want comms in your vehicle you will need a radio seperate to this and a radio operator

The radios i have are 6x351s, 1x352 and 6x349s as well as enough rechargable batteries with the complete charging kit it cost me over a £1300 +for all of this i have also converted the 349 headsets to resemble the wartime german ones.

it works for us because most of the blokes that use them are ex military and remember the radio procedures etc, 351s and 352s will all work on the same fequecies but this gear is designed for a bigger range than the fields at public shows, the 349s will also work on these frequencies but the bigger radios "talk down" to them and will cut them out if they are too close when transmitting (within 5 maters) but they are not mobile phones and need to be fettled and looked after

So basicly in the SBG we have comms from the recce group to the main kampgruppe tothe veicles and all of the dismounted units (via different nets so the commander can control everything)

Comms is quite a basic thing that enables you to move and work as a coordinated unit over greater distances and allows commanders to deploy blokes and equipment to achive any objective, combine this with good training and you will have a better representaion of the original unit you are protraying

[Hoffman Grink]

Thanks KK - The maestro has spoken - And made the case. Comms enable them to work. Over greater distances........ Can you imagine at a large show - When for example Glenn needs Gruppe commanders for his battle brief - Shout out over the net - People assemble.
We need vehicles for pyro at the Vic Show - Shout over the net - provided people have them turned on and manned......

[wolfsangel]

top idea, gets my vote

[nelz]

Internal coms to any vehicle with any degree of restricted view should be installed anyway and Vehicle owners/operators should ensure maximum safety at all times. The price is minimal for clansman equpment, so there is no excuse not to have even the basic commander to driver coms ability. The ability to externaly transmit & receive is sensible next step to ensure improved vehicle movement safety. Good idea pd, i fully support vehicle to vehicle to cp communication. Kitkat has highlighted the point of animating vehicles and men on the ground by using a coms system for greater accuracy of portrayal. I have to agree,this is the way forward. I suggest all vehicle owners concider the same system kk has invested in, and set the system as the standard for all uk axis vehicles. The future is bright - the future is clansman!

[Hoffman Grink]

Looks like we have an agreement here even with only a limited amount of response. Looks like group funds might be getting used on something useful in 2012.

If even a small infantry unit purchased 1 x 349 it would give them comms and get them started. At this time Withams have them in stock.

A charger, some batteries and a handset/headset are going to add to the cost but it has to be worth considering.

We could look at disguising them later if need be but for the meantime just acquiring them is the important thing don't you think?

[ssparatrooper]

I would say that these radios are soldier proof but they do need time to admin them and check them and if problematic there are drills to go throught to rectify the problems and it can be frustrating but they are a proper military comms that is out side of the civilian bands so they cannot be evesdropped on (unless you have a clansman but with 36000 variations of frequency they have more chance of winning the lottery..well a tenner at least)

So if you have a vehicle and want to talk to other vehicles in "a Kampfgruppe" you will need a 351 set up in your vehicle and someone "boring" enough to sit there and be a radio operator ALL OF THE TIME! when you are doing things, their job is to pass on information given to them by the vehicle commander to the next part of the chain of command and back, it will also put a bit of pressure on commanders as they will be expected to make decisions on the ground in real time while moving forward tacticly, reading a map, maintaining comms etc, im all for it because we do this in the SBG with the kit, blokes and vehicles but we do have a hard core of former soldiers that were (or are) senior ncos in the army so can bridge the skills over from that.

The 349s i dont use that much apart from in the hetzer we use them because we will not install a post war set up in it and the commander can dismount with it to ground control it if required, but we do have a removeable 351 init (in a rucksack) to speak to the other vehicles (as we did at the victory show to our halftrack)

If anyone was at the last mereworth we done the comms were used to great effect there for both dismounted and motrised troops, we were also for the first time able to move heavy kit around and give covering fire from realistic distances with the PAK40 for instance to the attacking kampfgruppe

it can be done because we do it.

[wolfsangel]

So would folk agree that the main requirement (IMHO) would seem to be common equipment between groups? By this I mean if a group is going to get kit then the infantry units would use XYZ and vehicles ABC.

I ask as I'd be keen to get the kit for our group but wouldn't want to spend a load of money going in the wrong direction.

[Sturmschar]

This is a move that is way overdue and if we had gone down that route prior to Victory there would have been an even better battle display than excellent show we all participated in. The sets KK has provided are as he says “soldier proof” and the difference they made to the last Mereworth battle was astounding and made it extremely fluid. I think that an additional separate net in the armored vehicles, commander to driver, is also a must.
Christ this must be a first all this agreement – wow!

[daveslastsummer]

would groups need a RSGB licence (Radio Society of Great Britain) to operate a clansman system?

[wolfsangel]

would groups need a RSGB licence (Radio Society of Great Britain) to operate a clansman system?

I thin k so but they are free and last for life so its no large one

[Franz repper]

Vehicle Comms a great IDEA ! the next stage would be to make a standard Voice Procedure that all would under stand