Panzer Lehr Uniform

[Stigroadie]

It's the principle that is important, dont make assumptions, let history guide you.
Personally I think it would be rather unlikely that an elite unit like the Lehr were never issued smocks for operations. I cant be certain they were though.

[Fritz bayerlein]

How very dare you meyer

[meyer]

How very dare you meyer

simples i could not help noteing there was a Very large pair of these sat in a jeep all weekend at pip park.

[PanzerMart]

just to clear up for you stig
our group's Panzer Lehr members are preferred to be wearing assault gun wraps correctly badged, however in this day of economic uncertainty we do allow splinter smocks to be worn until an assault gun wrap can be obtained mainly to offset paying out more cost although in most circumstances smocks are leant to members first.
That and the fact that if we decide to portray Italian campaigns our Lehr members are re-recruited to H.G division who DID wear splinter smocks.

I understand what you are saying that there is no evidence either to say they were worn or not. Like I've said before if someone happens to know a veteran of Panzer Lehr who can catergorically confirm or deny smocks we are all in the world of logical reasoning and guesswork.
Bear in mind P.Lehr were a) an elite unit, b) a later war unit & c) decimated completely on two occasions prior to their surrender so the liklehood is at somepoint they would have had smocks/ parkas or for that matter whatever was available.

[Hans Gowert]

How very dare you meyer

simples i could not help noteing there was a Very large pair of these sat in a jeep all weekend at pip park.

They looked more like the Post war belgian camo that was based off post war italian camo that doesnt look anything like italian camo.

[Fritz bayerlein]

Please Hans show me a correct picture of Italian camo, I was told by an Italian friend that the darker is more authentic.

[Hans Gowert]

visit the italian section and have a good read of the italian camo threads and then come up with your own opinion fritz

[Fritz bayerlein]

Thanks for that Hans will have a look.

[mauser98]

I have to agree with Stig. Impressions should be based on photographic evidence, original items, unit history and veteran interviews. Unfortunately, in my opinion, far too many German reenactors select Elite units to portray and not the basic Landser. I assume that kit is just too boring for them.
Some reenactors delude themselves that the more camo they wear, the better and will spend their hard earned money on items that are pure fantasy, incorrect for their unit or poorly constructed.
If monetary funds are a concern in determining the kit you buy, then don't pick a unit that requires a boatload of extra items. PL is a very cool unit to portray. So is HG, SS, Fallschirmjager, etc. Extensive research is a big part of the hunt in being able to historically present a particular unit. We do it a disservice to do it any other way. Seeing reenactors wearing their gamaschen backwards or not knowing how to wear their gas mask just add to the evidence of poor research.
I'd rather not wear something till I can substaniate its issue.
My 2 pfenigs
mauser98

[Fritz bayerlein]

If I were guilty of that 98 I would not have chosen Panzer Lehr but would have done Waffen SS.As far as I am aware when I started doing Lehr nobody else in England was and it in fact it seemed a forgotten division.

[PanzerMart]

yep sorry 98 we would also done SS if it was solely about money and camo.. SS is far cheaper to portray than Heer....... taking away tunics.
We picked PL mainly for the options it gives in terms of using bigger toys ........and because our guys love the Shoulder boards

Its a shame Fritz lives so far away we'd have loved to have a meet up and turn out a bigger PL unit........in our ASSAULT WRAPS lol

[Stigroadie]

You could meet half way? Cosby in September?
Have you found a good supplier for the 'L' embroidered shoulder boards? The Epic ones are the old dark green colour, I'd prefer some field grey ones.

[stefan]

I have to agree with Stig. Impressions should be based on photographic evidence, original items, unit history and veteran interviews. Unfortunately, in my opinion, far too many German reenactors select Elite units to portray and not the basic Landser. I assume that kit is just too boring for them.

That's a bit of sweeping statement



don't people just portray the elements of the forces that personally interest them both allied and axis and the people who have the kit on wrong tend to be the newbie's who are still learning about such things,the fact that the more glamorous shall we say impressions are more well represented just reflects real life all armies have more potential recruits for the elite side of there forces but the difference is you don't have to pass the strict entrance requirements to be a reenactor


[quoteIf monetary funds are a concern in determining the kit you buy, then don't pick a unit that requires a boatload of extra items][/quote]

you dont need boat loads of kit to do waffen ss ether apart from the insignia you only need a smock and helmet cover both of which can be obtained for less than £100 these days all the rest of the kit is the same?

[Hoffman Grink]

you don't have to pass the strict entrance requirements to be a reenactor

Oh you do..... but usually no one tells you about it and no one knows exactly what the requirements are........... if you catch my drift.......
Back on topic - Herr Bayerlein did indeed start the first Pz Lehr unit in the UK as part of KP1. Lehr existed for little over a year from Jan 44 to March or April 45 (from memory) and fought from Normandy back to the Ruhr (where they perished with the Windhund) and I believe also fought in Hungary? So a unit with a timeline of 15 or 16 months. Raised at a time when documentation was not the main focus and amidst the chaos of defeat (impending and actual) Twice decimated and thrown into some of the fiercest fighting of WWII they can hardly be called elite other than by the fact they were drawn from instructors of training schools....... I think they are a unit worthy of study and portrayal and for more reasons than the striking assault gun uniforms....... To me they represent the culmination of armoured infantry development during WWII and alongside all the other portrayals, they provide the endpoint. My opinion only.

[meyer]

Back on topic - Herr Bayerlein did indeed start the first Pz Lehr unit in the UK as part of KP1.

just to set the record to rights pz lehr was started by one simon summerville as part of kp1 . the current set up under bob is no longer anything to do with us.