post sutterlin script?

[barryG]

Im about to attempt to write my soldbuch up.... read loads about sutterlin and how it was abolished post 41, so what did they use after 41, would it be ordinary writing etc?

Any help re writing up the buch would be fantastic, got most of it translated now.

[Erich Johann]

Some people would still write "Sütterlin"--I mean, that is what they learned ... The "deutsche Normalschrift"/"lateinische Schreibschrift"/"Normalschrift" (check the German wikipedia) came next and is taught until today in primary school.

[Der alte Landser]

Barry: Have you thought about trying to learn to write the script yourself? I started out by learning to write Sütterlin after a friend asked me to translate some of his grandfather's fieldpost letters from the war. I've been practicing writing several times a week for about a month, and it actually isn't that difficult. Do you already know German? I wouldn't say it's a requirement to just write the information into a Soldbuch. I can post some good links to help with the process if you like.

Sütterlinschrift was one of several types of handwriting taught in German schools. There was no single type of script taught to children before that war. Sütterlin was actually intended as a teaching tool or children in grade school, since the designer made the letters "loopy" and flowing so that schoolchildren could more easily grasp the concepts and master the way that letters and words were written.

One of the good things about the German script is that if a person knows one form of it, he can pretty much understand any of the different forms. (i. e. Offenbacher Schrift, Kurrentschrift, Vehrkersschrift, etc.) It really is a fascinating topic in its own right and the "gebrochene Schrift" was something that every German soldier knew in the war.

[Erich Johann]

To me, Sütterlin is pretty complicated--and I am a native speaker

[Der alte Landser]

Johann: You're right that Sütterlin and the other related forms of handwriting can be difficult to read. Every writer had their own style and abbreviations were commonly used, especially in military writing. But, by learning to write the letters, it becomes much easier to learn to decipher text blocks. Just for fun, here's a little snippet I just wrote. The lower sentence in is English, and for me, the toughest letter to recognize is the "e," which in this form looks like an "n."

For a German speaker who can already write in the Lateinische Ausgangsschrift, learning to write in one of the older handwriting styles is more a matter of practice.

[barryG]

I have been practising, and getting nowhere so I have done some of my book in my own writing, but modified it a bit... it looks pants btw but at least its got something in it as opposed to being blank.

[Der alte Landser]

Barry: I am attaching a link to Amazon.de in this post for you. They sell an excellent workbook to practice the letters and letter groups. Like I wrote in the first post, I've been working on this for awhile, and am doing a lot better. It is definitely an acquired skill and takes practice. I use Sütterlin for grocery lists, etc. For that sort of thing I just write the words in English, and even my wife has been learning to read it.

I didn't ask before, but do you already know German?

http://www.amazon.de/Deutsche-Schreibsc ... 856&sr=8-4

[barryG]

Thanks, I do know a little German... but its very little indeed!

[Der alte Landser]

Barry: What is it that's giving you trouble? Maybe I can offer some pointers or tips. I think what makes Sütterlin hard for those of us who learned other forms of handwriting is that we learned flowing, loopy letters, and Sütterlin isn't particularly like that. Plus, we haven't had years to practice it, so it doesn't look like the illustrations. But neither did it when people used it for letters, receipts, and so on.

Something to keep in mind is that Sütterlin, Kurrent, Offenbacher, and Verkehrsschrift were intended to be written with a fountain pen, not a ballpoint pen. I settled on a middle ground and use a gel pen. Also, use lined paper if you aren't already doing it. I write letters on unlined paper with a guide behind it, but for anything else, I used lined. It's impossible for me to keep the lines from snaking sideways down the pages otherwise.

And there's a common misconception that the old styles of writing disappeared after 1941. That is not the case. They ceased to be taught in schools, but the style of writing was used for many years after that. Technically, Sütterlin and other similar forms of handwriting are still perfectly acceptable forms in Germany. I belong to a group that fosters the use of these scripts. The Bundespost actually has workers trained to read addresses written in older forms of handwriting.

Below is a grocery list I wrote in English using Sütterlin. Here's the list:

Apples
Dishsoap
Cereal
Paper Towels
Window Cleaner
Bananas
Oranges

There are some letters that aren't intuitively recognizable without prior knowledge, but some of the words don't look all that different from the way we write them.

[barryG]

Sure looks good, youve been a great help and I might try it again... the main thing is my writing is awful, I had Italic writing drummed into me at school and since then its turned into a spider like mess!

[Der alte Landser]

Barry: I know what you mean. I learned to write in cursive in grade school back during the 60s, and have done block printing ever since I've been an adult. To make it more complicated, I'm left handed. But, the deutsche Schrift is coming. It just takes time and some practice. I am posting a couple of links to some helpful site that are good resources.

This first one is Papersnake.de. They produce various kinds of paper and have free PDF files that you can print yourself. This link is to their grade school paper, which is perfect for learning to write using Sütterlin. Probably the most helpful one is for the 2. Schuljahr. This has the lines with the 3:4:3 proportions for correct letters:

http://www.papersnake.de/grundschule/

Here is a good site that shows the letters each with its own image so you can see them clearly.

http://www.diaware.de/html/schrift.html#gesch

Also, if you're interested, there's a website where you can download the Sütterlin font for free and use in in Word, InDesign, and so forth. You can even send e-mails in the font, but the receiver has to also have it installed for the message to display correctly.

[Pummelchen]

These links might be of interest too:

http://www.suetterlinschrift.de/Englisch/Sutterlin.htm

http://tghf.page.tl/S.ue.tterlin-_-the-alphabet.htm

Kind regards.

[Crazy Feldgendarme]

Barry dont forget i have all the stamps you will need for this (around 40 in all).

[barryG]

Nice one Dave, well Ive done some more and ruined it but hey... Dave can cover it all up with the stamps

[Heerespfarrer Heinz]

Sure looks good, youve been a great help and I might try it again... the main thing is my writing is awful, I had Italic writing drummed into me at school and since then its turned into a spider like mess!

Barry,
I am a "soldbucher" that does the books for Cyrus Lee at soldat.com, and let me say this... if you think your writing is 'awful', then it probably looks perfect. When I first started doing books, I was trying to make my suetterlin just perfect, and doing the latin script really pretty, and all that. One of the first bits of feedback I got from a guy in my unit was "Dude, this is too easy to read." After hearing that, I went and looked at originals and at my reference books, and he was right! Most of them are NOT tidy and nice. Remember, they were typically done in a short amount of time, and then moved onto the next recruit.

The most difficult thing about making a soldbuch, or any period identity document (Wehrpass, Reisepass, etc), is making it believable. Originals were easy because one guy had one book and it was handled and stamped by dozens of other people. A reproduction is one book being done by ONE person (typically; at least initially), who must make it look like he is actually 'dozens' of different people.