Sweden to help ? Any chance for that ?

[mario33]

Watching that 'Talvisota' film by P. Parikka, it struck me that most of the soldiers down there were hopeful, the war with soviets never happen as 'Sweden would help us'. I also remember reading something about that that Finnish gov't based their negotiations with soviets on the understanding that Sweden would help.

Was it based on some justified ground ?? Was there any kind of political link between Finland and Sweden at that time ?

[Peiper]

Servus lads, i have heard of this new Finnish film on other web sites, apparantly it is about a Finnish bicycle platoon stuck behind Russian lines on the Russio Finnish border. I did read abot the "Finnish problem" from ref books, especially when the German troops were in Leningrad. Apparantly the Finns refused to cross the border to assist them from the North other wise the City would have been taken in a matter of weeks instead of a drawn out campaign. This was the orders of Marshal Mannerheim who "refused to do the Germans job for them" apparantly, and he did not want to lend substance to the old Soviet argument that the Finnish border on the Karelian Isthmus was a threat to Lenningrad. Apparantly in this new Finnish film the Finn troops had crossed the border which was a bit confusing especially when there was no records of them doing so. I think therefore the film would have to be taken with a pinch of salt especially when i read that the Finnish troops in the film were using captured PPSH41's and the weapon didn't come into use till 1941 and the film was set in the "Forgotten War" of 1939-40. Anyway good hunting lads , regards Peiper. [quote] "I'll show you where the Iron Crosses grow!".

[Franz repper]

Watching that 'Talvisota' film by P. Parikka, it struck me that most of the soldiers down there were hopeful, the war with soviets never happen as 'Sweden would help us'. I also remember reading something about that that Finnish gov't based their negotiations with soviets on the understanding that Sweden would help.

Was it based on some justified ground ?? Was there any kind of political link between Finland and Sweden at that time ?

My good sir Talvisota is an out standing Film yes Finland has had a long history with Sweden our second language is Swedish. There was promis of help from France and My dear England to help Finland one reason why the held on a bit longer near the end .We had 8,000 Swedish volunteers fighting in the Finnish army

@ Peiper the PPsh 41 was a copy of our dear Suomi Konepistol and the Film you are onabout is set in our 1941-1944 war with Russia.Our good and dear Marshal Mannerheim only wanted to get Finnish ground back .Finnland did invade Russia but not to the extent that the Germans did I will look out a map and post it for you

[Peiper]

Servus kameraden, thanks for that Franz Repper, i do know the Russkies copied the "Suomi-Salmi" (as i own both examples), however the weapons in this film according to sources i have read on other sites are the PPSH-41, perhaps they have got it wrong. So the film is not about the Russian invasion of Finnland in 1939-40, my appologies for that, i assumed it was, anyway i think iam correct with my other comments regarding the "Karelian-Isthmus" problem that the Germans encountered when launching a siege at Leningrad in 1941. Thanks for your response, regards Peiper. [quote] "I'll show you where the hero sandwiches grow!".

[jmatchlock]

mario33 - might i sujest - " FRAMOW FRAMSTA LINJEN " beyond the front lines - about a raiding party - Also here might be of interst to you - Finnish , medel For Polish- vol -

[Franz repper]

mario33 - might i sujest - " FRAMOW FRAMSTA LINJEN " beyond the front lines - about a raiding party - Also here might be of interst to you - Finnish , medel For Polish- vol -

jay weldone a bit of swedish the name of the Film in Finnish is Etulinjan edessä (In front of the frontline) Very good film a trus story as well .The Medel you show Jay is For 1917-1918 we had a short war in 1918 that was our civl war

[mario33]

I dont know if any of you understands whats written on it. Its 'Za naszą wolność i Waszą' - old Polish saying: 'For our freedom and Yours'. Its a saying of all Polish fighters for freedom of any nation as well as Poland, especially when Poland was non-existent (both 1795-1918 as well as 1939-1945). From Kosciuszko helping defending West-Point against 'red jackets' up to helping 'same jackets' with expelling German air raids in 1940 and more.

I just wonder why is it on the Finnish cross. Any details pls ? and close-up of the inner to read whats written in there ?

Only a few ppl here know probably that Polish mountain troops, before being sent to Narvik, were intended to be used for helping Finland against Russia in 1940. Mind you, Poland was in the state of war against Soviets since 17.09.1939. Unfortunately enough, Hitler invaded Denmark and Norway.

And, again, no hard reason for thinking that 'Sweden might help' so far ? I was a bit surprised to hear/read that as I know that Sweden insisted on its neutrality very much during that war. In Sept 1939 Sweden interned 3 Polish subs and despite significant effort made by many sides - never released them nor their crews until 1945.

[Franz repper]

The Swedish /Finnish help during the winter is best explaned intwo books both in print
Both are called the winter war
The winter war by William R.Trotter ISBN 1-85410-932-4
Thw winter war Eloise Engle & Lauri Paananen ISBN 0-8117-2433-6

[Pikkusisar]

Hello, I had to register just to answer to the queston about that Polish medal. To quit a long story about myself short: Finnish, female, yes, I re-enact, no, I don´t do WWII but am a "pointy-stick-person", love digging obscure facts about all periods of history -which is why I lurk around forums that do not apply to my re-enactment period. And that´s why I HAD to find about that cross. It did take some time -and, as usually, all the sources were in Finnish.
Fortunately, the Council of State had published a small leaflet about the killings/deaths of the Russians in Finland during the Civil War, and I found it from the net. I have translated the first part of the rather small chapter about Polish troops in Finland -yes, there actually were some! So here goes... (Sorry about the possible mistakes on army terms and also if the language is a bit... Well, English is not my native tongue.) (Oh, and I left the umlauts out to make it a bit easier to read.)

The Russians killed by Polish troops
(Lars Westerlund)

The Polish soldiers that had served in the Russian army begun to organize themselves after the March Revolution. Societies were established for example in Helsinki, Viipuri, Ino, Lappeenranta, Tampere, Vaasa, Turku, Oulu, Tornio, Hameenlinna, Kokemaki, Rauma, Riihimaki, Kotka, Mikkeli, Pori and Hanko. During the summer of 1917 soldiers of Polish origin were also starting to be divided into their own units. Then were born an all branch battalion in Viipuri, the Rasakka artillery division in Viapori (=Sveaborg, Suomenlinna -the big fortress at Helsinki coast) and an infantry company in Ino. There were over 20 Polish military units in Finland on their most (when there were the most of them here during the same time -couldn´t find a decent term right now, sorry). These united to an alliance called The Polish Legion in Finland. It consisted of 1700 men and 37 officers. The amount of Polish soldiers was however much larger, because their combined strength has been estimated between 4000 (minimum) and possibly even 6000 men. The head of the Polish troops was second lieutenant Stanislaw Robert Prus-Boguslawski.

The whole thing is available here (in Finnish only, sorry):
http://www2.vnk.fi/julkaisukansio/2004/ ... 134314.pdf

The bit about the Polish is on the page 233. Basically they disarmed Russian troops and "kept order at banks and shops so that anarchistic mobs couldn´t rob those", especially at Viipuri and at the railways between Viipuri and the Russian border.

[Franz repper]

Moi Pikkusisar thanks for the Info hope to see you on here more

[Pikkusisar]

Thank you, but I am already juggling with three different centuries (not including the current one). I really can´t fit another one into my schedule... So consider this as a "drive-by informing". (That´s why I didn´t do the official introduction.) I might pop here again if there is another mystery that requires the knowledge of an obscure language and a slightly warped researcher´s mind...


Oh, I almost forgot: Staying in topic -don´t forget the more "passive" help that Sweden gave to Finland. The best known might be the case of the "war children" (sotalapset), the babies and children that were sent mostly to Sweden to live with foster families, but also to Denmark and Norway during the winter war and the continuation war. (About 72 000 children were transported to Sweden, 4200 to Denmark and about 100 children with their mothers to Norway.) My father and his siblings (2 older sisters and one brother) were amongst those. Dad actually found his tiny cardboard suitcase a couple years ago -still in almost mint condition. He was 3 years old when they left. (They were in a far more fortunate situation than most of the other children, because their mother tongue is Swedish. About 15 500 children never came back -quite many because they were so small and could not speak anything else than Finnish.)

There is a great movie about that, if someone want´s to see war more through a child´s eyes: "Äideistä parhain" (lit. "The Best of the Mothers", the English title is "Mother of Mine") by Klaus Härö. It was chosen as Finland´s Academy Award nominee 2006.

By the way... Some say that the children were sort of a genetic bank in case Soviet Union would have invaded the country. So that the Finnish people would not have been completely wiped out. But, of cource, that´s just the cynical minds speaking, right..?

[Peiper]

Servus gents (and ladies) , seeing the topic about the unknown Finnish award prompted me to put this up . I have amongst my collection a few unknown oddments, one is a Finnish medal, i think . The award consists of a blackenened medal suspended from a black and red ribbon, the ribbon has two narrow red stripes running along its centre. The medal itself has an embossed image of a soldier dressed in what looks like a snow suit with hood and is sighting along an automatic weapon. As i haven't got the medal infront of me i can only go on memory but it has the dates 39/40 on it, im sure it is Finnish and dates from the "forgotten war" of 39/40 against the Red army but cannot be positive, any information such as Nationality or date it was instituted would be appreciated, cheers lads/and lassies, regards Peiper

[Pikkusisar]

Yup, you´re right. It is a winter war memorial medal. It is supposed to have a small metallic band like this:
http://riemun.huuto.net/auctionimages/9 ... 5-orig.jpg

(That pic is from Huuto.net, Finnish version of Ebay, so here might be a more permanent link, with English texts:
http://www.medals.org.uk/finland/finland016.htm )

...and that will definately be the last I will write here. For today.

(OK, one more link because someone is bound to ask about the next war´s medal... There you go:
http://flickr.com/photos/14575229@N06/2445264380
The medal in the middle is more accurately the Medal of the Order of the Cross of Liberty, Second class -given to NCOs and "ordinary soldiers". The officers get the some-or-other class of the Order of the Cross of Liberty. Which is actually cross-shaped. And now I´m going to get some sleep.)

[jmatchlock]

Pikkusisar - WELCOME-and Thank You for the information. Please fill free to add your input any time . Thank You, Jay

[mario33]

Pikkusisar, thank you very much for your info on the most interesting subject of Polish soldiers in Finland.

One thing puzzles me regarding Finnish children being sent to Sweden.

About 15 500 children never came back -quite many because they were so small and could not speak anything else than Finnish.

could you pls explain ? Why the knowledge of finnish made them not to come back ???