PE in MAy 1945

[NASAAN10]

When Prinz Eugen Surrendered to the British in May 1945 in Copenhagen which is in Denmank. She was then taken back to Wilhelmshaven on May 28th, to be turned over the US as a War prize. She was Escorted by light Cruiser Dido and Heavy cruiser Devonshire and Two Distroyers (H.M.C.S. Iroqoois and H.M.S. Savage). my question is Were Was Devonshire, was she behind Prinz Eugen or where was she at, Exactly? And Did Prinz Eugen have a Chance to Escape in to open water or were there British Sailors on board her to mak sure she didn't make a run for it? But there is the twist here, Her Ammunition was offloaded under British orders, so she didn't have any of her 8" shells.

So My question here is could she have gotten away or would she have been sank right off the bat or blow out of the water? and Explan why!

But there's an add on to this also: What If" light cruiser Nürnberg draw off Dido and one of the Distroyer Savage. Could PE draw off Devonshire and the other Distroyer Iroquois. what were the odds on them actually getting away, I know PE didn't have any shells, but she did have her torpedoes i believe? Kind of what i told my two other friends don't sink PE, just corner her and force her to back down and give herself up, then if she dosen't pop off a few warning rounds at again see if she's back down, then if she dosen't, then sink her! But don't sink her right off the bat.

But what do you guys think? Or are they both dogmeat any way??
Nikki

[jimmyvonk]

My question would be, why would she want to escape?

Wars over boys, lets move the ship as the allies have ordered and then we can all go home etc.

And if she did escape where would she go?

[NASAAN10]

Guys,
It's a "WHAT IF" question Here ok.. I was talkimg to another friend about this so Here is what I sayed to my friend first: My point i'm trying to make here is, if she got in to the north sea could they have try to cornered her from all angles and keep her pinned in and slowing move in on her a side at a time or would they have came at her at once..that i'm asking..

He came back with this: They won't move on on her at all - just "herd" her away from any potential landfall by simply popping up on the horizon and blocking any particular route they don't want her taking. But what do you guys think..
NIKKI

[BaggyPants]

IF she'd made a run for it (very unlikely with armed guards on board) she would have had nowhere to go, with no usable armament and limited supplies. The allied ships would have just followed her around until she gave up again. You posted elsewhere about her hiding in a fjord. Why? How would she feed her crew once supplies dwindled? How would she re-arm? The topic is a complete non-starter.

[NASAAN10]

are ther an ideas about this: But there's an add on to this also: What If" light cruiser Nürnberg draw off Dido and one of the Distroyer Savage. Could PE draw off Devonshire and the other Distroyer Iroquois. what were the odds on them actually getting away, I know PE didn't have any shells, but she did have her torpedoes i believe? Kind of what i told my two other friends don't sink PE, just corner her and force her to back down and give herself up, then if she dosen't pop off a few warning rounds at again see if she's back down, then if she dosen't, then sink her! But don't sink her right off the bat.
Nikki

[Crazy Feldgendarme]

You have answered your own questions here Nikki, she was considered a war prize and therefore the Navy would have placed a prize crew aboard consisting of Marines and sailors under a couple of officers. Now given these men were aboard for the German crew to have killed or taken them prisoner (given the prize crew would be heavily armed and the German crew disarmed and watched at all times) would on its own be considered an act of war giving the Navy the right to do exactly what it wanted even to the extent of sinking the ship with the prize crew still on board.
Given that the war was over and all most would want to do was get home why would they risk that, it would be tantamount to suicide, and in any case what could one lone ship do against the combined might of the Allied Navies apart from die gloriously for the (dead) Fuhrer and the (defeated) Reich. Contrary to some opinions very few servicemen are prepared or want to die for a lost cause.

Dave

[BaggyPants]

In a PM you sent me, you stated:

look at her max spped, 33.5know and dido and Devonshires was 31-knots.. i know what i'm talking about ok..

It's pretty obvious you don't know what you're talking about, Nikki. Her speed has nothing to do with it, because the allies could throw ALL their resources at catching her, including aircraft. Had she run, she would have had to get twenty miles away before she was out of sight of the escorting ships. At a speed diffence of 2.5 knots, that would have taken her around ten hours. Plenty of time for aircraft and other hardware to be brought down on her, especially considering the range of the British Navy guns. It would have taken her almost five hours to get out of range of Devonshires guns alone (In 1941 Devonshire sank a German merchant raider, the auxiliary cruiser Atlantis, at a range of nine miles!). She'd have made good target practice.

You still have to answer the three questions I asked in my PM responding to your first to me:

1) What would she have done had she escaped?
2) Where could she re-arm and re-supply?
3) What purpose would it have served?

Until you give decent answers to those posers, it is pointless discussing wether she could have outrun anyone. No point running if you have nowhere to go, nothing to defend yourself with and dwindling supplies for your crew.

As Dave says, she was a war prize. The allies wouldn't have let her sail back without marines on board. Had she wished to escape, she would have done it instead of surrendering, surely? What's the point of turning yourself in, then running?

[Reich Crispies]

I think this has just about run its course. Wether she had a reason to run or not, she wouldnt have made it to the horizon without allied intervention regardless of how much damage she might or might not of caused to her escorts.

Unless, Nikki, are you trying to write some kind of third reich version of "Under Siege"?

[NASAAN10]

Guys look,
i was trying to turn this in to a fight ok. I was trying to see what her chances really were OK.. besides a really good sea chase, you mean.. Just cause i have ADD, i'm not stubid ok.
Nikki

[BaggyPants]

I was trying to see what her chances really were OK.. besides a really good sea chase

No chance whatsoever. She would have been lucky to get a mile away before she was blown to crap. No sea chase at all.

Nobody's saying you're stupid, Nikki. We've given our opinions and reasons. It would appear that, rather than wanting others ideas on the subject, you are waiting for someone to come up with something which you can agree with. If you would like to answer my questions, then we have a discussion, otherwise this thread is just as Prinz Eugen would have been had she tried to run. Dead in the water

I must be beginning to suffer from ADD myself, because, unless you can come up with the solutions to the questions I asked, I'm bored rigid with this thread

[NASAAN10]

Guys,
I had a friend day this to me: Then, taking their time, fly a couple of flights of Swordfish and assorted torpedo bombers over her as their leisure. And if the PE doesn't heave-to after that - they come back again, but at full speed. what dose that acuttly mean??

Also let change things up for a minute, with if germany still had Bismarck and Scharnhorst, would all three go to the US??
NIKKI

[BaggyPants]

I have no idea, because I don't think there were any carriers with Swordfish aircraft near. I think they mean they would threaten to attack with torpedo carrying aircraft. If she didn't stop, they'd then sink her. More likely that land based aircraft would be called in in force to deal with it while the escort ships monitored her position.

[NASAAN10]

Also let change things up for a minute, with if germany still had Bismarck and Scharnhorst, would all three go to the US?? or would they have been spint-up.. I'm just asking..
NIKKI

[Kolya]

Depends on whether it was the Allies who captured them - if we're talking imaginary scenarios (ones that don't involve the two battleships being destroyed), maybe one or both was used to cover the retreats in the Baltic, and the Soviets captured her? In which case, they'd most likely have been used like the Graf Zeppelin and torpedoed.

[pzrwest]

Reguarding "what if" topics is kind of pointless because you can have 10 different people with 10 different scenarios and a waste of time it just goes round and round I think this thread should be locked just my point of view